Help - My ZX has started leaking oil !

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 04 Jul 2004, 03:57

Camshaft front oil seal, had the same heavy oil leak on one of my ZX diesel's, made a right bloody mess everywhere it was parked.
Easey enough seal to replace though,
Dave

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 04 Jul 2004, 14:44

Dave
Thanks for the prompt reply.
Is that the only thing it can be then ?
When you say it's easy enough to do, what's involved ?
I have a Haynes manual an will be happy to attemt most things.
Somewhat simplified - Is it a case of removing the timing belt, rocker cover, cam and then replacing the oil seal and then utting it all back again.
Any advice / hints on doing it ?
Many thanks

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 04 Jul 2004, 16:45

If you have got oil getting out as far up as you say, it can be either the cam shaft seal or the rocker cover, any which way you should be able to nail the culprit when all the clutter is removed, but the camshaft seal is known to leak very badly when they go down.
Simply take the pulley off (loosen the bolt before removing the belt) get a 1" x 8 or similar size pozidrive superscrew (very sharp and very hard) and the proper screwdriver that fits it, place the screw against the seal near its outer edge NOT near the shaft, tap the screwdriver with a hammer whilst turning and it will soon bite into the steel part of the seal, screw it in a couple of turns and then use it to pull the seal out.
Fit the new one to the same depth and make sure it goes in square, I used the pulley with large washers and a longer bolt to push the seal in, thus keeping it dead square all the way.
Good luck
Dave
p.s don't loose the woodruff key.

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 04 Jul 2004, 23:33

Do I need to follow all of the directions in the Haynes manual before taking the timing belt off. Thereby ensuring that neither the cam or pistons move ?
In which case I presume I need to losen the belt first, then remove it, remove the camshaft pulley and then follow the directions that you gave ?

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 05 Jul 2004, 03:24

Use the Haynes only as a guide, don't try and follow it to the letter, use your common sense as to what needs to be removed to complete the task.
The reason I said loosen the camshaft pulley bolt before removing the belt is because it will prevent the camshaft from turning, if you remove the belt first the camshaft will be difficult to hold stationary while removing the bolt, there is a square cast onto the shaft for holding with a spanner for this purpose, but to access it you need to remove the rocker cover and that means taking the intercooler off and disturbing its gasket also.
If the rocker gasket isnt leaking allready, it will deffinately leak if you disturb it, you would then have to fit a new one in that case, so disturb only those items that can't be avoided.
Don't worry too much about maintaining the timed position of the various pulleys and the crankshaft, re-positioning them is a cake walk, but you must have three M8x50 bolts and a suitable probe to locate the crankshaft position, this needs to be 8mm diameter and is inserted through the block flange (behind the starter motor) and into the flywheel.
Dave

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 05 Jul 2004, 13:00

Dave
Just some further info:-
The cambelt has no oil on it at all. In fact there is no oil visible on the pulley or on the cambelt housing either. However it can be seen from inside the wheel arch with the arch side lining removed and the cambelt cover removed. It starts running down the bottom/behind of the engine mount onto the engine. It also appears down the back of the engine behind the metal section of the cambelt shroud at the back.
If the cam seal is the only source of oil in that area then I guess that is what it must be.
Is there anything else in that area that could be leaking oil, how about the end of the rocker cover ?
The leak did get worse as I revved the engine.
I obviously just want to make sure before I start fixing it.
Will most motor factors hold the cam seal or is it a Citroen only part ?
Is it worth buying a proper 8mm timing belt probe or will a 8mm drill bit be ok ?
I think I would rather remove the intercooler and replace the rocker cover gasket, it's cheap enough and will allow me to hold the cam properly when dismantling. As long as there is nothing else in this area that could be causing the leak it will ensure I have got it.

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 05 Jul 2004, 21:02

I will aim to get the parts ordered tomorrow with a view of doing it at the weekend.
Any other advice would be appreciated as I am a little bit anxious as I have never done a cambelt before an am obviously concerned about screwing it up !

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 06 Jul 2004, 02:50

I'm not sure we're on the right horse here, Paul you need to positively identify where the leak is coming from before going in after it, if necessary remove the belt covers and run the engine without them so you can see the camshaft oil seal.
You mention the engine mounting getting oil dripping down it, that sounds like it could be the head gasket leaking, the oil gallery from the block to the cylinder head is at the front left corner of the engine as you stand in front of the car facing it, this gallery transports pressurised oil to the head for the camshaft bearings, a leak at the head/block junction would almost certainly be severe due to the pressure.
This must be either ruled out or confirmed before work begins.
Dave

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 06 Jul 2004, 12:58

Dave
Thanks for all of your advice to date.
I have already removed the timing belt covers. Even with them and the wheel arch linings removed visibility is very difficult. As I mentioned in a previous post, I carefully jetwashed the area to make it easier to see what is happening.
I can see through the cambelt pulley with a light but can't see any oil immediately through it. I don't know if you have the Haynes manual for the ZX TD to hand but on P2A.10 picture 9.17a it shows the side of the engine out of the car. The oil is dripping/running down on the left of the engine mounting bracket. The bracket has a gap between it and the engine, it also runs down from here. Additionaly it runs down the back corner of the engine as well.
I have checked the coolant and there is no signs of oil appearing.
One additional thing, it takes a few seconds for the oil to start dripping once the engine is started. Once the engine is stopped it continues to drip for a good 5-10 mins after.
I was actually going to post a question today asking about how to check that is couldn't be the headgasket.
Any suggestions to narrow it down further ?
Would I have to removed the cambelt and pulley to have a better look ?
What length 8mm rod do I need to push into the engine ? (Would a 8mm drill bit be ok )
How about removing the engine mountings to the body as I would have to if I was removing the cambelt anyway ?
I can't seem to see the headgasket from the side because there are too many things bolted to the side of the engine.
I read the Haynes manual a couple of times yesterday evening and am now a lot happier with the procedure to remove and replace the cambelt. However I still have a concern that once I have removed the camshaft pulley by holding the cam with a spanner (rocker cover removed) what stops the cam from turning when you're removing the seal etc ? ( I couldn't see any mention of this in the Haynes manual)

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 06 Jul 2004, 21:26

Had a rethink about the things that need doing on my car.
I need to sort out the oil leak first. Assuming I can resolve this I will get the garage to do the remaining work on the CV boots and bush as there price is relatively competative for this.

Post by **Jon** » 07 Jul 2004, 02:19

Hi Paul,
I've got a similar big oil leak problem on my ZX. As I had the thing in the air at the w/e when I was doing the clutch, I carefully cleaned off all the leaking oil. I'm afraid to say that there is no oil anywhere near the crankseals or camseals, and my diagnosis firmly points towards the head gasket, there is also a slight ingress of oil into the water, although nothing major.
"Off with its head" probably early August, I'll keep an eye until then.
Theres a bloke I work with who is very keen on buying a good Volcane TD (he lives in Warwick) so maybe you can drop a line with how much you want for it either fixed or as is, and I will give him the details.

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 07 Jul 2004, 03:40

In agreement with Jon I think the volume of oil you speak of is very likely the result of head gasket failure, something overlooked is the fact that a cam seal will gradualy get worse over a period of time after starting as a minor leak, the head gasket can let go all at once and if this was the case then it just about nails it.
The camshaft wont turn during seal replacement and infact will be somewhat reluctant to turn unless forced, as with a spanner on the pulley bolt.
A drill bit is not ideal as a timing probe because of its short length, to use one you will have to remove the starter motor, if you have not had cause to find the timing hole before, you may well have to do this anyway.
I fashioned a probe from 8mm silver steel, bent to the required angles to go over the starter motor, available in standard 13" lengths from any engineers merchants, branches of Infast or the like, silver steel is a cheap precision ground low grade tool steel in an annealed form.
Dave

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 07 Jul 2004, 12:58

Dave
I presume that the camshaft pulley with a M8 bolt inserted won't allow the camshaft to rotate anyway when removing the bolt ?
I also guess that because of the Woodruff key the camshaft pulley must go back on in exactly the same position, so along with the m8 bolt inserted into the pulley the camshaft should be in exactly the correct poistion for re-assembly ?
Do you know what bolt type the camshaft pulley goes on with ? (In case I need to push the oil-seal in with it ? I believe you suggested using a longer bolt to do that)
I presume the starter motor is a pre-engaged type attached by two bolts and therefore quite straightforward to remove ?
I have a long 8mm masonry drill bit with a long shank that may be suitable then.
So is it worthwhile removing the pulley to check the seal ?
If it isn't the camshaft oil seal, does that mean it must be the headgasket ?
As best I can tell it started leaking after a trip to Coventry and back(Approx 70 miles each way) one Thursday afternoon to see a new car. Ususally my trips are 23miles each way to work. So the motorway journey at 80MPH was unusual. The coolant system was thoroughly flushed and thermostat renewed early this year and the temperature gauge sits on 80 degrees apart from initialy just before the thermostat opens so it certainly didn't overheat.
If it is the head gasket, how straighworward a job is it to do ? I have had a quick look through the Haynes manual and while it looks quite long winded it doesn't look too difficult ?
Any advice/hints on doing the head gasket ? What other gaskets/seals will I need to replace on items I have to remove to do it ?
Thanks

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 09 Jul 2004, 14:44

If you put an 8mm bolt into its timing location in the cam pulley and then spanner away at the pulley bolt, it might bend, depending on the quality of the bolt used.
I think if you get started on a head gasket job on this engine you may well wish you hadn't, its not rocket science but it is a major effort for a first timer, if taking the cambelt off worries you then don't even think about this lot.
Only you can decide what to do but help from the folk here will be on hand whatever.
Dave

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » 09 Jul 2004, 16:05

At the end of the day I have nothing to lose.
I can't sell the vehicle as it is so I may as well have a go at fixing it.
I was sorried about taking the timing belt off as I have never done one. Having read the Haynes manual a few times and the advice given on her I understand the principals and am a lot more confident.
I plan on removing the timing belt this weekend, followed by the camshaft pulley to see if the oil seal is the culprit.
If it doesn't seem to be I presume the only cause must be the head gasket ?