Xantia rear height,THE END

np · Post by np » 25 May 2004, 23:35

The rear of my 97 vsx est seems to be sagging.Also,on fast A roads,the back seems to hit the bump stops if you hit a dip.
The car works fine on different height settings,eg,up,down,medium height,although the back sometimes takes a while to go up/down.It needs all new spheres now as ride has been getting worse for a while now,more like a "normal"car.
I know the clicking from the front accum has been getting shorter(now every 3 secs!)although that wouldnt affect the ride height?
The car has 133k,33k i`ve done,with lots of caravan towing.Would i`d be right in thinking it needs a new rear height corrector?And if it does,is it as straightfoward as in Hanyes Manual?(LOL!)

Post by **philhoward** » 26 May 2004, 00:11

Height correctors take a while to work; i doubt that your height corrector is at fault; more likely that your spheres are shot. However...the brake valve could be causing both the sagging (rear brakes take their pressure from the rear suspension) and the rapid ticking (high internal leakage). Could be one for AndersDK - he's probably got a standard answer that may not involve Citaerobics for this one!!

np · Post by np » 26 May 2004, 22:17

Any more takers???

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 26 May 2004, 22:51

Blown spheres wouldn't have it hitting the bumpstops. Normally flat spheres result in no bounce at all. Maybe gas in the system (from ruptured spheres) would though. Citaerobics should clear that (raise and lower the suspension, stopping at each setting a dozen or so times).
It does sound like a question for the gurus though. give it a day or so, they will be along.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 26 May 2004, 23:13

As you can manually set the car to the various heights, the HC and linkage is working.
It's correct to assume that the suspension hits the "bump stops", but not the actual rubber stops, it's the spheres that are "bottoming" out. This feels exactly like hitting the bump stops. Besides - all bits involved in the suspension are UN-necessary overloaded by this, leading to premature breakdowns.
I'd defo get the spheres replaed ASAP, as it's not just driving comfort involved. It's a safety issue as well, both in road holding aspects and safe spare brakes pressure.
The fast ticking regulator points to a flat accumulator sphere, which is responsible for both a constant system pressure to brakes, and any spare brakes pressure in the event of an engine (and then hyd pump) stall. Also a flat accu sphere is known to cause all kinds of strange systems in the suspension behaviour, especially on HA suspension systems.
In fact your problem compares to a normal sprung car, which BOTH have collapsed springs and a faulty master brake valve [8)]

np · Post by np » 26 May 2004, 23:48

Ok,thanks.Ride has been getting worse for a while now,more so since i overloaded it.Had to much weight in the back and it wouldnt self level.I s`pose that killed off what was left of rear spheres?The fronts not to bad,sits at right height,and the Hydractive works,you can feel the bumps even more when you press the switch.
I was thinking of doing all spheres my self,but reading past posts,i think i might have some trouble.By the time i get the removal tool,i may as well pay an extra £40 in fuel and take it to Westroen.Provided all goes well when they renew them.£230 with a 3 yr warranty.Citroen,£430 with a 1 yr warranty!!
Thanks Anders.

Post by **philhoward** » 27 May 2004, 01:39

It does sound like a ruptured sphere or two might be the cause, adding air into the system (which can cause the strangest things, as Anders says).
I had mine done at Westroen; seeing the LHM showers he got, I'm glad I spent the fuel taking mine there as well! Dont' be alarmed if Doug breaks his sphere removal tool; he can repair it just as quickly! Personally, I couldn't recommend them highly enough. They know what they're on about, alright! Wish i'd had a fluid change whilst I was there as well; it's cheap enough!

np · Post by np » 27 May 2004, 01:54

I rang them the other day,cant do it 4 a few weeks yet.Dosent matter,i`m off on holiday next week 4 2 weeks.Can do it then.Still works out cheaper,even though i live in Bristol!!!

Post by **philhoward** » 27 May 2004, 01:58

I had to book a week or so in advance; it's more so that they've got the spheres as much as workshop time. Worth the wait; a very friendly service. I'm nothing more than a happy customer (must get my BX up there sometime soon as well...)

np · Post by np » 27 May 2004, 22:23

My rear end!! is now on the floor nearly.Not all the way,but nearly.When i lower the car,the rear doesnt sink all the way,theres still a little bit of bounce.Sitting in the back,plus putting a full tank of fuel in it,it doesnt rise any more.Although it still operates at the lever(up down etc).
Having read what Philhoward says,& past posts,would that explane why my front brakes seem to doing all the work?When i brake from speed on fast A roads for roundabouts,i get a loud noise from front brakes.Also,the wheels are covered in brake dust.I`ve checked brakes,all fine.Is this because the rear is buggerd & rear brakes are not giving full force?The car stops in a straight line.

Post by **philhoward** » 27 May 2004, 23:13

If the brake valve is leaking, them it's letting High Pressure past it, sometimes without actually operating the brakes (if it's the rear brake circuit which is leaking the rear suspension will suffer). One of the return pipes to the tank (don't know which one) is the low pressure return from the brake valve; with the engine running, there should be very little fluid flow through this pipe if all is well with the brake valve.
You say it still operates with the lever, does the back still move? Can you get it to high position front and back?
I'm now wondering if the rear HA sphere block could be at fault... Beyond my knowledge (even though I have a VSX!!)

np · Post by np » 27 May 2004, 23:56

When you move lever up,down,middle,the front and back all operates as it should.Although the back sometimes is a bit slow.front will rise,then rear,but all ok.I`ve done 350m so far this week,and its got worse.I know all spheres need renewing,as i`ve done 33k since i`ve had it,inc lots off towing.No record of them being changed b4 i got it.The front seems ok,although you tend to feel all the bumps.The rears been getting worse 4 sometime.Ithink the high miles this week have proberly killed it off,as it was alright mon,but getting lower all week.The problem with the front brakes has been there 4 a few weeks now,even though the rear was still level then.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 28 May 2004, 01:17

Neil -
It's not worth bothering with the weird behaviour & symptoms, until you know for sure the basics are functioning correctly.
It's almost like trying to understand why paint wont stick to rust.
Please note that the brakes are severely affected by this, meaning the car MUST be considered dangerous to drive ...

Post by **philhoward** » 28 May 2004, 01:35

As for your front brakes, I'd make sure you've actually got some pads left...

np · Post by np » 28 May 2004, 03:17

So to sum it all up then,i need to replace all spheres ASAP.Thay should hopefully get everything back to normal.
Correct me if i`m wrong......
Rear spheres can be a pain to get off.Set car to max height,support with stands(life saver)TRY to undo all spheres by 1/4 turn.Lower,depressurise,remove spheres,(spill Lhm!)refit new ones.Citrobics,check lhm.Hopefully back to normal.
Same method on front spheres??Renew spheres,check lhm.Then renew lhm & filters??
Front pads have plenty of life yet(4 now anyway!)