I seem to remember that the end float is 0.008". Is this the clearance between the end cap and the sub frame and if it is, how do others measure it?. Are shims readily available from Citroen.
The wheels lean in very slightly so I removed one arm and didn't find discernible wear. If the bearings are good, can the back end be simply shimmed up?
BX Rear arms, how to shim up?
Moderator: RichardW
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
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Hi Tom,
- me too had lots of thoughts on the Haynes shimming description, until I found out that the bearing preload solely are done by the distance CUP spacers & tube through the arm.
I have never seen any distance spacer washers on the BX'es I've done rear arms to.
A good sign are slightly binding rear arm bearings (no rough feeling). If the rear arms bounces on the rubber stops if you let go on them, then you have slack in the bearings.
You can not adjust the geometri on the rear wheels. There are no means to do it, as the spacers only has to do with bearing preload.
If you still think the geometri is wrong, the only route is to replace the bearings, or try increase the bearings preload. Last resort would be to replace the complete rear subframe.
Dont be foiled by a dodgy rear wheel bearing (hub) - although they usually are very noisy during drive if they fail.
- me too had lots of thoughts on the Haynes shimming description, until I found out that the bearing preload solely are done by the distance CUP spacers & tube through the arm.
I have never seen any distance spacer washers on the BX'es I've done rear arms to.
A good sign are slightly binding rear arm bearings (no rough feeling). If the rear arms bounces on the rubber stops if you let go on them, then you have slack in the bearings.
You can not adjust the geometri on the rear wheels. There are no means to do it, as the spacers only has to do with bearing preload.
If you still think the geometri is wrong, the only route is to replace the bearings, or try increase the bearings preload. Last resort would be to replace the complete rear subframe.
Dont be foiled by a dodgy rear wheel bearing (hub) - although they usually are very noisy during drive if they fail.
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
Thanks Anders.
The geometery is only slightly adrift I think but I think it is due to bearings becoming slack
If the bearing becomes slack, the preload is wrong (lower than required) and a shim would tighten it up, forcing the cones into their races. Surely this would locate the arm more vertically. Logically, the further the cones are withdrawn from the races, the more tilt happens in the rear arm, seen as negative camber.
The geometery is only slightly adrift I think but I think it is due to bearings becoming slack
If the bearing becomes slack, the preload is wrong (lower than required) and a shim would tighten it up, forcing the cones into their races. Surely this would locate the arm more vertically. Logically, the further the cones are withdrawn from the races, the more tilt happens in the rear arm, seen as negative camber.
Hi Tom - have a look for an html document, probably starting 4x4, on the CD I made up for you. There's a page lifted from the old 4X4 site which had a scan of the official citroen procedure for rear arm bearing removal/replacement, including all those wonderful official tools. I'm sure there's a reference to shimming-up there, unless you got the .008" figure from there, and there isn't a shimming guide....in which case I apologise.
By the way, continuing our "worn rear arm" debate, if there is wear to the section of the arm where the seal and thrust bush locate, then I'm prepared to admit it that in theory it shouldn't affect the rear arm geometry, so long as there is no wear to the sections where the races locate. However, it does make the entry of dirt, moisture and other substances an almost foregone conclusion, causing that horrible corroded used-to-be-bearings mess I've enountered a couple of times. Also, why is is it then that Peugeot 309/405 etc. rear arm mounts, located in an axle tube integral to the rear axle assembly or rear body, are a terminal affliction? Does Mr Citroen know something Mr Peugeot doesn't?
By the way, continuing our "worn rear arm" debate, if there is wear to the section of the arm where the seal and thrust bush locate, then I'm prepared to admit it that in theory it shouldn't affect the rear arm geometry, so long as there is no wear to the sections where the races locate. However, it does make the entry of dirt, moisture and other substances an almost foregone conclusion, causing that horrible corroded used-to-be-bearings mess I've enountered a couple of times. Also, why is is it then that Peugeot 309/405 etc. rear arm mounts, located in an axle tube integral to the rear axle assembly or rear body, are a terminal affliction? Does Mr Citroen know something Mr Peugeot doesn't?
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Jon
DLM,
Mr Peugeot realised that he could make loads more cash selling a complete rear beam for several £100 pounds rather than just selling a replacement rear arm bearing kit. Those Pug rear ends seem designed to wear the rear beam at the same rate as the rear bearings. Unfortunately, both the vehicles that I presently own are "blessed" with such an arrangement.
Mr Peugeot realised that he could make loads more cash selling a complete rear beam for several £100 pounds rather than just selling a replacement rear arm bearing kit. Those Pug rear ends seem designed to wear the rear beam at the same rate as the rear bearings. Unfortunately, both the vehicles that I presently own are "blessed" with such an arrangement.
Jon - the original discussion was to do with my erm....BX rear arm paranoia.
I took a couple of "spare" rear arms to bits a couple of years ago, only to find them so badly worn around the outer thrust bush/seal such that the assembly wouldn't seat properly anymore. AND they had really deep gouges on the inside of the arms.
After seeing that I decided never to start a rear arm bearing replacement until I had a replacement rear arm, reconned off-car, ready to swap back on, so I wouldn't get stranded with a useless worn out rear arm and no transport to sort it out.
I understand Pleiades do recon Citroen rear arms where they have bored out this opening until considerably oversize, then inserted a cylindrical piece of hardened metal to bring the internal diameter back to the correct value.
Tom maintains that a properly-shimmed up rear arm bearing replacement job will be unaffected by such factors, so long as correctly shimmed up and if the section of the rear arm housing the bearing races is undamaged.
I took a couple of "spare" rear arms to bits a couple of years ago, only to find them so badly worn around the outer thrust bush/seal such that the assembly wouldn't seat properly anymore. AND they had really deep gouges on the inside of the arms.
After seeing that I decided never to start a rear arm bearing replacement until I had a replacement rear arm, reconned off-car, ready to swap back on, so I wouldn't get stranded with a useless worn out rear arm and no transport to sort it out.
I understand Pleiades do recon Citroen rear arms where they have bored out this opening until considerably oversize, then inserted a cylindrical piece of hardened metal to bring the internal diameter back to the correct value.
Tom maintains that a properly-shimmed up rear arm bearing replacement job will be unaffected by such factors, so long as correctly shimmed up and if the section of the rear arm housing the bearing races is undamaged.