Xantia 2.1 TD Turbo slow(ish) [SOLVED]
Moderator: RichardW
Xantia 2.1 TD Turbo slow(ish) [SOLVED]
Hi all,
I have a Xantia 2.1 TD (the subject was a dead give-away wasen't it [:)] ?) with 185.000 on the clock.
<b>Question</b> : The Turbo doesn't kick in until somewhere around 2600-2800 RPMs. Is that <i>really</i> normal ?
On a car with variable wastegate I would expect it to happand around 1500 RPMs but here I have to put it in 3rd to accelerate neatly from ~60 to ~80 (Km/h). Anybody with same/different experience ?
/RaceMouse
I have a Xantia 2.1 TD (the subject was a dead give-away wasen't it [:)] ?) with 185.000 on the clock.
<b>Question</b> : The Turbo doesn't kick in until somewhere around 2600-2800 RPMs. Is that <i>really</i> normal ?
On a car with variable wastegate I would expect it to happand around 1500 RPMs but here I have to put it in 3rd to accelerate neatly from ~60 to ~80 (Km/h). Anybody with same/different experience ?
/RaceMouse
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Ok. Been out checking but the trouble is that the engine being the 2.1 Citroen has done a great job hiding the Turbo Unit.
- The air filter looked OK. A little dusty but not alarming.
- The hoses and ducts seem all ok. They do not seem to be damaged and such.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You should feel the turbo blowing from 2000revs. Has the late delivery suddenly happened? Has the timing belt been replaced recently - maybe it's a tooth out?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I'v only had the car for about a month so I honestly don't know if the "late delivery" has happened suddenly. I do not think that the timing belt is faulty though. The engine runs smoothly at both idle and max speed.
Is there a way to do a system check on the Turbo / IC system ?
/RaceMouse
- The air filter looked OK. A little dusty but not alarming.
- The hoses and ducts seem all ok. They do not seem to be damaged and such.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You should feel the turbo blowing from 2000revs. Has the late delivery suddenly happened? Has the timing belt been replaced recently - maybe it's a tooth out?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I'v only had the car for about a month so I honestly don't know if the "late delivery" has happened suddenly. I do not think that the timing belt is faulty though. The engine runs smoothly at both idle and max speed.
Is there a way to do a system check on the Turbo / IC system ?
/RaceMouse
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Turbochargers don't last forever. At 185000 it may have seen its best.
Try to measure boost pressure.
I had a turbo go faulty when the wastegate stuck open so losing boost pressure. I fitted a recon turbo and it flew.
If you can take the turbo off and try a refurb kit to change seals etc . and clean it up. Or just check the state of the waste gate, you may be able to recover the boost.
A recon turbo will be around 400 quid.
Try to measure boost pressure.
I had a turbo go faulty when the wastegate stuck open so losing boost pressure. I fitted a recon turbo and it flew.
If you can take the turbo off and try a refurb kit to change seals etc . and clean it up. Or just check the state of the waste gate, you may be able to recover the boost.
A recon turbo will be around 400 quid.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KevMayer</i>
Turbochargers don't last forever. At 185000 it may have seen its best.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Kev - note this is km, not miles, so it's just barely run in ... But you're right, nothing lasts forever [;)]
Turbochargers don't last forever. At 185000 it may have seen its best.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Kev - note this is km, not miles, so it's just barely run in ... But you're right, nothing lasts forever [;)]
I don't know about space under the Xantia, but on my XM (which has the same engine) you can reach the turbo from underneath. It sits roughly in the middle of the engine block.
From the results you have mentioned, I would also start looking for a stuck wastegate. Another usual problem with this motor is the rubber seals for the boost pressure pipe coming lose and letting out precious air.
As far as the life of a tubo on a diesel is concerned, if you treat them properly (i.e. change oil and filter every 10 000 km and use a good oil), they will last forever (mine is still on it's original, untouched turbo at 520 000 km!)
//NiSk
From the results you have mentioned, I would also start looking for a stuck wastegate. Another usual problem with this motor is the rubber seals for the boost pressure pipe coming lose and letting out precious air.
As far as the life of a tubo on a diesel is concerned, if you treat them properly (i.e. change oil and filter every 10 000 km and use a good oil), they will last forever (mine is still on it's original, untouched turbo at 520 000 km!)
//NiSk
Hi again,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Try to measure boost pressure.
I had a turbo go faulty when the wastegate stuck open so losing boost pressure. I fitted a recon turbo and it flew.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Does any one of you guys know to measure the boost preassure ?
I'd rather try to measure it before beginning to disassemble the car. According to the Haynes manual I have to remove either the engine or the transmission before I can get the Turbo out [:(]. I dunno, but something simple like applying manifold pressure and watching the wastegate operate or ...
Any Ideas ?
/RaceMouse
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Try to measure boost pressure.
I had a turbo go faulty when the wastegate stuck open so losing boost pressure. I fitted a recon turbo and it flew.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Does any one of you guys know to measure the boost preassure ?
I'd rather try to measure it before beginning to disassemble the car. According to the Haynes manual I have to remove either the engine or the transmission before I can get the Turbo out [:(]. I dunno, but something simple like applying manifold pressure and watching the wastegate operate or ...
Any Ideas ?
/RaceMouse
It is possible that you have a fault in the overfuelling system. A turbo diesel has a system for injecting additional fuel in response to turbo pressure. On non-electronic systems there is an overfuelling device which is connected to the intercooler by a thin black rubber like pipe and as the pressure rises it allows more fuel to be injected. The pipe itself can cause problems by dropping off or splitting and of course the cure is obvious.
Without the additional fuel the turbo pumps away happily and very little if anything happens. If you have a minor defect in the pipe causing some leakage it is possible that the overfuelling device only really becomes effective at full pressure - ie higher revs.
on my TD BX I have an overboost warning light sensor under the battery which is connected to the tube from the intercooler and I have found that this pipe has split and fallen off. This didn't seem to make much difference but a good check of this pipe system is probably worthwhile (and cheap if a fault is found) Incidentally the pipe always fills with oily muck - so this is nothing to worry about)
To measure the boost pressure is not particularily difficult, the tapping generally being made in the rubber tube from the intercooler that I have mentioned. The problem is that to measure full boost the engine must be under load which means that you can only measure it while driving. I think you will find maximum boost is obtained when pulling in 4th or 5th gear hard uphill. there are some posts on this subject on this board.
jeremy
Without the additional fuel the turbo pumps away happily and very little if anything happens. If you have a minor defect in the pipe causing some leakage it is possible that the overfuelling device only really becomes effective at full pressure - ie higher revs.
on my TD BX I have an overboost warning light sensor under the battery which is connected to the tube from the intercooler and I have found that this pipe has split and fallen off. This didn't seem to make much difference but a good check of this pipe system is probably worthwhile (and cheap if a fault is found) Incidentally the pipe always fills with oily muck - so this is nothing to worry about)
To measure the boost pressure is not particularily difficult, the tapping generally being made in the rubber tube from the intercooler that I have mentioned. The problem is that to measure full boost the engine must be under load which means that you can only measure it while driving. I think you will find maximum boost is obtained when pulling in 4th or 5th gear hard uphill. there are some posts on this subject on this board.
jeremy
Hi Again,
First: Sorry for the LONG reply time. I had an examens project I had to finish first, so....
Anyways: Jeremy, I checked the hoses and lines as you indicated. They were all ok.
HOWEVER: My girlfriend knows exactly where the speeder is and not afraid to use it. She has been driven the car for about a month now and it seems as if the waste gate has come loose again. It could be so the the former owner never really exercised the turbo and the waste gate therefore got stock !?!?
The result of all of the is that the car sprints beautifully again from ~1500 RPMs. It's got 6 new spheres and all is grand.
Thanks for all the replys guys. I've used this forum a lot and probably will do so in the future as well
/RaceMouse
First: Sorry for the LONG reply time. I had an examens project I had to finish first, so....
Anyways: Jeremy, I checked the hoses and lines as you indicated. They were all ok.
HOWEVER: My girlfriend knows exactly where the speeder is and not afraid to use it. She has been driven the car for about a month now and it seems as if the waste gate has come loose again. It could be so the the former owner never really exercised the turbo and the waste gate therefore got stock !?!?
The result of all of the is that the car sprints beautifully again from ~1500 RPMs. It's got 6 new spheres and all is grand.
Thanks for all the replys guys. I've used this forum a lot and probably will do so in the future as well
/RaceMouse
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