Hi Guys,
Of late, I notice excessive smoke coming from exhaust especially after the engine has warmed up during idling. Besides, exhaust pressure seem a bit excessive as well. Apart from this shortcoming, the engine seem to be running in tip top condition and 2nd gear has more than adequate power to move the car from rest and even climb the narrow winding lane to the fifth storey condominium car park with four adult in the cabin.
Have not tested the compression yet but suspect that the valve seal may need replacement. I may be wrong and would appreciate your views/advice.
ZX 2.0.i - Exhaust emitting greyish/white smoke
Moderator: RichardW
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volcaneoptimist
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 27 Apr 2004, 21:27
- Location: Malaysia
- My Cars:
Normally, white smoke = water in cylinders.
Check for excess pressure in the cooling system (ie) hoses hard when car is warm or sudden loss of coolant. Also check for water contamination in the oil in the form of emulsified looking oil on the dipstick.
Better start saving for a head off job methinks; it doesn't sound good.
Alan S
Check for excess pressure in the cooling system (ie) hoses hard when car is warm or sudden loss of coolant. Also check for water contamination in the oil in the form of emulsified looking oil on the dipstick.
Better start saving for a head off job methinks; it doesn't sound good.
Alan S
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by XM-V6</i>
I had also lots of white smoke plus excessive fuel consumption (+80%), fault was OK after replacing Lambda sensor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
What sort of petrol were you using?
It usually goes the opposite, <b>jet black</b> when it's too rich.
Alan S
I had also lots of white smoke plus excessive fuel consumption (+80%), fault was OK after replacing Lambda sensor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
What sort of petrol were you using?
It usually goes the opposite, <b>jet black</b> when it's too rich.
Alan S
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volcaneoptimist
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 27 Apr 2004, 21:27
- Location: Malaysia
- My Cars:
Thanks Alan,
I do notice water droplets coming out of the exhaust when the engine is idling for the first few minutes. A friend of mine said that 's due to correct timing/combustion. However, as the engine warm up, white smoke is visible and a slight smell of unburnt gasoline or maybe mixed with water or oil.Checked the spark plugs and all four are brownish indicating good combustion as evidenced by no loss of power or performance. Noted your good advice to save up for a top overhaul as a last resort.
XM-V6 - Fuel consumption on my ZX is higher than normal by at least some +40%. Had recently taken out the throttle body for a good clean up of the carbon deposits/sludge. Also replaced a faulty idling stepper motor that was giving a bit of problem. Engine is idling smoothly now at 850rpm with or without aircon on. However,unlike your XM, my volcane 2.0.i petrol(94) do not have the lambda and cat sensor. There is however a MAP sensor attached somewhere under the plastic manifold which I have yet to open up to clean. I suspect that since the throttle body was cover with thick sludege that I have cleaned, the MAP sensor should also be affected.
Wonder if anyone knows the exact location of the MAP as I gathered that one need to dismantle the inlet manifold to see it. Maybe I sould take a snapshot of what the 'bugger' looks like when I have it taken out one fine day. Any other views or comments would be much appreciated.
I do notice water droplets coming out of the exhaust when the engine is idling for the first few minutes. A friend of mine said that 's due to correct timing/combustion. However, as the engine warm up, white smoke is visible and a slight smell of unburnt gasoline or maybe mixed with water or oil.Checked the spark plugs and all four are brownish indicating good combustion as evidenced by no loss of power or performance. Noted your good advice to save up for a top overhaul as a last resort.
XM-V6 - Fuel consumption on my ZX is higher than normal by at least some +40%. Had recently taken out the throttle body for a good clean up of the carbon deposits/sludge. Also replaced a faulty idling stepper motor that was giving a bit of problem. Engine is idling smoothly now at 850rpm with or without aircon on. However,unlike your XM, my volcane 2.0.i petrol(94) do not have the lambda and cat sensor. There is however a MAP sensor attached somewhere under the plastic manifold which I have yet to open up to clean. I suspect that since the throttle body was cover with thick sludege that I have cleaned, the MAP sensor should also be affected.
Wonder if anyone knows the exact location of the MAP as I gathered that one need to dismantle the inlet manifold to see it. Maybe I sould take a snapshot of what the 'bugger' looks like when I have it taken out one fine day. Any other views or comments would be much appreciated.
May be worth getting someone with a Lambda meter to take a reading to see exactly what is showing at the exhaust.
Could be that if the mixture is so rich that it isn't fully combusting that this could be the source.
The thing to remember of course is that where you would get steam type discharge in the UK climate, ours is less likely due to temperature & humidity difference.
The water droplets at the exhaust is quite normal due to condensation.
Have you checked for pressure within the cooling system yet?
Alan S
Could be that if the mixture is so rich that it isn't fully combusting that this could be the source.
The thing to remember of course is that where you would get steam type discharge in the UK climate, ours is less likely due to temperature & humidity difference.
The water droplets at the exhaust is quite normal due to condensation.
Have you checked for pressure within the cooling system yet?
Alan S
When engine is warm - and the white smoke still appears - then lightly hold a rag against the exhaust pipe, to have whatever fluid is coming out condensing in the cloth.
Be sure the rag is large/lumpy not to burn yourself, and do not try strangling the engine holding the cloth too tight.
Any excess oil will condense, and make a greasy wipe on whatever you wipe over with the rag afterwards. Water is very different from this test : it simply feels/seems wet.
Excess fuel is evident : it smeels like fuel and tends to evapourate fast from the rag.
Be sure the rag is large/lumpy not to burn yourself, and do not try strangling the engine holding the cloth too tight.
Any excess oil will condense, and make a greasy wipe on whatever you wipe over with the rag afterwards. Water is very different from this test : it simply feels/seems wet.
Excess fuel is evident : it smeels like fuel and tends to evapourate fast from the rag.
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volcaneoptimist
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 27 Apr 2004, 21:27
- Location: Malaysia
- My Cars:
Thank you so much for the kind response. Eager to carry out the test once the car is back from an outstation trip in a few days time and will report back on the results:
1. Pressure test within the cooling system
2. rag test on the exhaust emission to determine any excess unburnt fuel or oil presence
Meantime, I have asked my junior to switch back to BP petrol once the tank is near empty just in case the current tank of 'She... Super' is the culprit. I recall filling from a pump that have a petrol and diesel hoses side by side.
1. Pressure test within the cooling system
2. rag test on the exhaust emission to determine any excess unburnt fuel or oil presence
Meantime, I have asked my junior to switch back to BP petrol once the tank is near empty just in case the current tank of 'She... Super' is the culprit. I recall filling from a pump that have a petrol and diesel hoses side by side.
Just out of curiosity, now you mention it, what kinds of petrol do you have in Malaysia?
The reason I ask is that in Australia we can get ULP (Unleaded petrol) LRP (Lead replacement petrol) and PULP (Premium Unleaded Petrol) as well as things like Shell Optimax, Mobil 8000(?) BP Ultimate which are 96 - 98 octane.
I notice you say you were using Super; is this leaded, LRP or simply high octane?
If you're getting the same low grade fuels that we get, they can have anything in them; toluol, kerosene or Turps. I had a gutful of BP from an outlying station a few years ago who had cut price fuel. I ended up in all kinds of strife because it was contaminated by what they suspected to be turps (Turpentine) due to the operator buying rogue petrol that contained all kinds of crap due to it not being graded and quality checked by the company.
We currently have a stong move on over here to ad methanol to the fuel but they won't legislate on a maximum 10% and it is believed to be up to 20% & sometimes more & some car makers are warning about warranty issues if they have problems.
The thing is, that methanol will mix with water & allow it to go through your system in fact most fuel system cleaner additives have methanol as their main base chemical, so it stands to reason that if you've got a high content of methanol, you could also have your petrol water contaminated yet the car will run OK.
I'll be interested to hear the outcome when you change the fuel.
For the record, when I got the load of bad fuel, it produced white smoke from the exhaust after the engine had stopped and left a white coating up the exhaust pipe, so it's an interesting theory.
Alan S
The reason I ask is that in Australia we can get ULP (Unleaded petrol) LRP (Lead replacement petrol) and PULP (Premium Unleaded Petrol) as well as things like Shell Optimax, Mobil 8000(?) BP Ultimate which are 96 - 98 octane.
I notice you say you were using Super; is this leaded, LRP or simply high octane?
If you're getting the same low grade fuels that we get, they can have anything in them; toluol, kerosene or Turps. I had a gutful of BP from an outlying station a few years ago who had cut price fuel. I ended up in all kinds of strife because it was contaminated by what they suspected to be turps (Turpentine) due to the operator buying rogue petrol that contained all kinds of crap due to it not being graded and quality checked by the company.
We currently have a stong move on over here to ad methanol to the fuel but they won't legislate on a maximum 10% and it is believed to be up to 20% & sometimes more & some car makers are warning about warranty issues if they have problems.
The thing is, that methanol will mix with water & allow it to go through your system in fact most fuel system cleaner additives have methanol as their main base chemical, so it stands to reason that if you've got a high content of methanol, you could also have your petrol water contaminated yet the car will run OK.
I'll be interested to hear the outcome when you change the fuel.
For the record, when I got the load of bad fuel, it produced white smoke from the exhaust after the engine had stopped and left a white coating up the exhaust pipe, so it's an interesting theory.
Alan S
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volcaneoptimist
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 27 Apr 2004, 21:27
- Location: Malaysia
- My Cars:
Hi Alans/Anders,
The car is back from outstation. Had switched to another brand of unleaded petrol for over a week and noticed the following. No sign of white smoke when engine is cold and during warming up in the early morning. However, when the engine is warmed up to normal operating temperature with the oil temp gauge at 70-75c there is some white smoke but very much less than before.
- Performed the test by squeezing the radiator which felt quite soft indicating no excessive coolant pressure.
- Also use a rag to trap for unburnt fuel or oil. No strong smell of fuel or oil but the rag seems a bit wet from the steam/vapor discharged during warming up
- Check the engine oil and found level dropped by some 5 – 10% after a 500km trip
Although the rag is slightly wet, it didn’t felt greasy as I used it to wipe the windscreen after that. Nevertheless, I still suspect that oil maybe leaking through the valve stem seal as evidenced by the oil loss although not in significant amount.
I have just changed the oil from 10 w 40 to 20 w 50 and the engine seems a bit quieter. May decide to add ‘No Smoke’ additives if condition warrant it after testing for the next few days.
On the subject of petrol quality in Malaysia, we have the 3 basic types that Alan mentioned. Lead Replacement, Unleaded and premium unleaded sold under different names by the vaious petroluem companies. For Example:
Shell has Regular(LRP), Super(ULP) & V-Power(PULP) whilst Caltex has Vortex™ Gold considered a premium product, as a higher-octane grade unleaded gasoline, Vortex™ Silver as a lower octane grade unleaded gasoline. For BP they had it under different names label as 97, 98 & so on.
Got to go now and shall update you guys at a later date. Meantime, thank you so much for your views/help.
The car is back from outstation. Had switched to another brand of unleaded petrol for over a week and noticed the following. No sign of white smoke when engine is cold and during warming up in the early morning. However, when the engine is warmed up to normal operating temperature with the oil temp gauge at 70-75c there is some white smoke but very much less than before.
- Performed the test by squeezing the radiator which felt quite soft indicating no excessive coolant pressure.
- Also use a rag to trap for unburnt fuel or oil. No strong smell of fuel or oil but the rag seems a bit wet from the steam/vapor discharged during warming up
- Check the engine oil and found level dropped by some 5 – 10% after a 500km trip
Although the rag is slightly wet, it didn’t felt greasy as I used it to wipe the windscreen after that. Nevertheless, I still suspect that oil maybe leaking through the valve stem seal as evidenced by the oil loss although not in significant amount.
I have just changed the oil from 10 w 40 to 20 w 50 and the engine seems a bit quieter. May decide to add ‘No Smoke’ additives if condition warrant it after testing for the next few days.
On the subject of petrol quality in Malaysia, we have the 3 basic types that Alan mentioned. Lead Replacement, Unleaded and premium unleaded sold under different names by the vaious petroluem companies. For Example:
Shell has Regular(LRP), Super(ULP) & V-Power(PULP) whilst Caltex has Vortex™ Gold considered a premium product, as a higher-octane grade unleaded gasoline, Vortex™ Silver as a lower octane grade unleaded gasoline. For BP they had it under different names label as 97, 98 & so on.
Got to go now and shall update you guys at a later date. Meantime, thank you so much for your views/help.