Help! Xantia newbie suspension problems

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morgaine
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Help! Xantia newbie suspension problems

Post by morgaine »

Hi guys
Hope someone can help!
I bought my first Xantia a few weeks ago. After a few days I noticed that it had a slow leak of the LHM fluid. I have been religiously topping this up, and it seemed to cause no problems, apart from I did notice that occasionally the suspension did not drop after the engine had been switched off. The leak does not appear to be on the pump itself.
Last night I turned on my ignition and the back end would not rise. I have tried it maybe 7 or 8 times since and it is definitely not even trying. There are no noises or anything, it just doesn't move!
Are there any checks I can do to work out what has failed?
Many thanks
Morg
PS I also have a very minor secondary problem - I was told when I bought the car that it would not lock as the batteries were dead in the keyfob, but I have changed the batteries and it is still doing nothing. Is this going to be a keyfob problem and could I get a replacement from Citroen?
ZEGA
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Post by ZEGA »

I don't konw about rear not rising, maybe all sort od things, you must check it out, read this: http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/citroen%20guide.pdf first...
Then you might get a clue...
But about a infrared remote gizmos used on XM, you can check all that with camera or camcorder wiewer...
When look at remote emmiting IR diode (remote conrol for your car, VCR, TV or anything similar, you shouls see blinkig light trough wiewer (or on LCD wiewer) that indicates that 95% problem is on recive side...
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Post by RichardW »

Hi Morg,
Welcome to the forum and Citroen ownership...
Now, what age is your Xantia, and what engine / spec?
First, you really should get that LHM leak sorted out - it will cost you a fortune in LHM, and possibly fail the MOT. Where is the leak - we may be able to give you some pointers to fixing it.
Non-rising rear - have you tried the suspension height lever in the car (next to the handbrake)? This may wake up the suspension if you put it in high (fully towards the back of the car). Does the STOP and (!) light go out on the dash? If the lever does the trick it is probable that the control lever has dropped off the rear height corrector - you may be able to reattach this, but it is probably worn and will come off again. IMPORTANT!!! Do NOT get under the car UNLESS it is properly supported on axle stands / ramps / over a pit - they can (and do) drop suddenly and squash you....
The remote locking is a bit more tricky - does the light come on on the side of the fob when you press the button? It may be the system is disconnected to stop alarm problems.
Right, that should keep you busy for a while! Post back and let us know how you are doing and we'll see if we can help further!
morgaine
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Post by morgaine »

Hi guys
Many thanks for the welcome and the help!
My Xantia is an M reg 1.9TD
The keyfob does absolutely nothing at all. It is as dead as the Monty Python parrot! I have pushed both buttons on the side with no effect.
I tried putting the suspension setting on High to see what it did - the front end went right up but the back end did not budge.
I did have a poke around last night after the problem started. I couldn't say for definite as it was dark, but I think the leak may be on the front suspension itself - there was definitely something viscous that had dripped down from inside the front drivers side wheel arch! I am hoping either myself or my hubby will get home while it's still light so I can check better. I will read the manual in the meantime, as I understand the basic principles of hydraulics but have no idea how the Xantia's suspension works!
I really hope there is something I can do, I have grown very fond of my Xantia in a short time. It's a great drive and the fuel economy is unbelievable. I'm no mechanic but I love cars and I'm not too bad with a spanner so hopefully if we can diagnose what it might be I should be able to fix it!
Thanks again
Morg
RichardW
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Post by RichardW »

OK - ignore the key fob for now, that will no doubt be the subject of a long and involved discussion...
The LHM leak - if it's behind a front wheel there's a good probability that it is the front strut vent hose. Looking at the bottom of the suspension strut there should be a rubber hose clamped to it, which should loop over and push onto some steel pipes on the front subframe. This part is cheap from GSF (like a fiver) but the clip is a bugger to fit. You can repair the pipe however, with suitably sized PVC washer hose. It could also be the strut itself, but the rubber pipe is more likely.
The non-rising rear end is more of a puzzle, but my guess is that the height correct is totally seized up and not responding to either the automatic or manual adjustment (or it may just be the link popped off, can't remember if this stops the manual lever working also). Is you car a VSX and therefore fitted with 'hydractive' suspension (button with a spring on it next to the handbrake)? Is it fitted with anti-sink - if you look at the hydraulic pump (on the drivers side of the engine, either at the bottom, or the top if the car has air-con) does it have one or two steel pipes coming out of it (one means no anti-sink, 2 means anti-sink) - this may have a bearing on the rear height problem. There is also a security valve somewhere that I seem to remember can shut in the closed position, but I can't remember how to reset it - we'll go there later if necessary!
morgaine
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Post by morgaine »

Hi Richard
I'll have a look at the hydraulic pump tonight - the car's at home at the mo as I thought 80 miles on its bump stops would probably kill it. The weekend car is earning its keep for once!
The height adjustor is a long strip on the right of the handbrake with a slider.
If it's any help, I've been reading through the site and I didn't realise the brakes and hydraulic system were connected. The one thing I have complained about since I got the car is the brakes - they feel "bumpy", as if they were trying to push my foot off the pedal if I have to apply them quite hard, and the stopping distance is awful. I usually release then reapply them (several times!) Sounds like there might have always been a problem :(
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Post by AndersDK »

Hi Morg -
What about clicking sound interval from the pump ?
Does it click constantly - or does it have some ½ - 1 minutes regular clicking interval ?
I'm in line with Richard on the rear linkages being stuck - it's such a common problem.
If the plastic connection bit has popped/snapped off - the rear would most likely settle in highest height - and stay there. But nothing seem to be a rule on this.
I think you should concentrate on the problems in this order - not to confuse matters :
1) make sure the clicking interval from pump/regulator is at least some ½-1 minutes. If not - it's the main accumulator sphere on engine block that's gone flat - and must be replaced.
2) have the rear end jacked up to manually investigate/service the linkages to the height corrector - insuring they can move freely in all joints. The work itself is similar to freeing up a stuck rusty door hinge - but the location and space makes it somewhat dreadful.
3) the Xantia brake pedal is reputed for this strange back-kicking. Because of a spring fitted under the pedal itself - to make the Xantia brake pedal feel like a normal car. Lot's of owners have dismantled the spacer bits under the pedal - replaced the spring with a homemade spacer - and gained the usual old Citroen models brake pedal feeling - no back kicking.
philhoward

Post by philhoward »

Morg,
Sounds like the car I gave back to the dealer I got it from...oops!
Can you give us a clue where the leak is (i.e. where is the puddle on the floor?); it may help with diagnosing normal (and abnormal) trouble spots.
As for the brakes; does it have ABS or not? Could it just possibly have warped discs (all Citroens are heavy on the brakes and tend to wear them out quite rapidly)? Is it like a rapid buzzing (once/twice or more a second) or is it after a couple of seconds braking? Does it change depending upon how hard you brake?
The height adjuster slider...does it have a switch just in front of it with a spring on it (the switch if it's there is the same size as the HRW/Fog light switch) and is it a VSX (not LX or SX) model? As for the anti-sink question...if there's 2 pipes from the pump (plus the big feed pipe..) and it's got a sphere in the middle of the car at the back, underneath, then it's an anti-sink model.
As for the failing to rise, then the first point of call would be the height corrector linkage. A possiblity is that the Anti-sink valve has stuck, but never heard of it myself. There's always a first time!
Sorry for the 20 questions, but the more clues, the more chance of someone remembering an identical problem they've had!
morgaine
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Post by morgaine »

Hi guys,
I have a bit of progress...
Unfortunately I didn't manage to get a look at the Xantia in daylight - it looks like this will end up being at the weekend now - but we do have movement, of sorts.
It now looks like a drag car, with the back end up and the front end WAY up! To get it moving it was put at Normal height, then switched off. Then High, then switched off. Then Low, then switched off. When it was switched back on after the last time, the back end moved. It seems like the effort of trying to adjust from High to Low finally shifted it. I think from reading all your posts that this would tie in with the rear height corrector linkages theory - does that still sound right to you?
I think the pump is fine, there is no constant clicking or whining, fingers crossed!
The fluid leak is almost definitely on the outside - I can't find any wet carpet and I'm sure I would have noticed a smell if there was a puddle inside with me - phew! I will get it jacked up at the weekend and check the vent hose under the wheel arch, hopefully it is that and not the strut. Hopefully I will be able to find the leak and free the linkages!
Brakes - I'm pretty sure that it's not disks, there's no pulling and I don't get any regular thumping noises. I think the pads are okay too - I'm not getting a warning light and there are no nasty metallic scraping noises. I didn't realise there was the spring under the brake pedal and now I come to think of it it does feel like a spring trying to push back out. Was this meant to be am improvement?! I think I will go with the spacer idea and take my chances with what came before!
My husband's been inspecting the keyfob for me and apparently it has been fixed at some stage by someone with no idea of how to solder. Fortunately he can, so I will let you know what the LEDs do then!
The more questions the better - I had never heard of accumulator spheres, rear linkages and anti-sink a few days ago so it's a good learning experience!
Oh, sorry, no it's not the VSX model.
Thanks again - I'm starting to panic a bit less now!
Morg
morgaine
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Post by morgaine »

Hi,
We haven't been able to get the car jacked due to the rain - our driveway is a mixture of hardcore and mud and it's just sinking. I've been playing about with the height adjustor slider though, and it does definitely seem to be the linkages to the height corrector. As you said, Anders, once I put the slider on High, both front and rear rise to full height, but when I set the slider back to normal height, the back end is now staying at full height. If I switch the engine off, the back end stays up. Next time I put on the ignition, the back end drops completely, and I have to repeat the process.
It also appears that I do have anti-sink - I can't get to the pump very well but it feels like there is one big pipe and two little metal pipes that curve round.
I can live with the back end sticking in the short term, until the drive dries out - I just didn't want to damage the car by driving it with the back end right down. I'm a bit gutted as I was all keyed up to get it sorted this weekend, but I don't fancy a Xantia on my head, it's a bit heavy! As soon as the weather is a little better, I'll get it all freed up, and if necessary replaced. Can anyone recommend a parts supplier or am I best just going to my local Cit dealer?
Many thanks
Morg
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Right Morg -
Seems this Xantia has the antisink feature - which just means an extra valve locking whatever pressure is remaining in the rear suspension - when ignition turned off.
Once the cold car in the morning is charging and has reached system pressure - the antisink valve opens to rear suspension - and the rear drops.
This points to a weak main accumulator sphere (the one on engine block).
The antisink system also has an extra sphere - solely to provide rear brakes pressure - in the event you have an engine stall (and therefore pressure loss) during drive.
A weak antisink sphere could also make the rear drop when ignition turned on - but a totally flat antisink sphere would need very little pressure charge to reach it's charged pressure - hence only causes a minor rear drop.
As a work-around - untill work conditions are sensible - then after engine start - try give the height setting control some "blows" in the heighest setting - to "wake up" the rear HC linkages.
The idea is then to re-set the height control to normal - once the rear has gained some sensible height. Requires some fiddling back & forth with the height setting - but soon you learn how it functions.
This will definately make for safer driving - but of course also delays starting your trip.
The good thing is - that the rear HC linkages <font color="red"><i>may</i></font id="red"> suddenly start working by itself - because of this extra motion [8D]
That does not mean the problem is solved though - as all indications are the linkages needs a service/lubing to be reliable !
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Post by louis1 »

Hi just a few questions, what is anti sink, this button with a spring on it on some models are they on the dash and can some one explain in more detail about the acctuator clicking.
thanks louis
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Hi louis -
Antisink is an add-on feature to the standard (early) hydropneumatic Citroen suspension systems. It simply prevent the car sink down on rear over night.
Your V6 would have the Hydractive (II) suspension system - which is a further development of earlier Citroen suspension systems.
The control button you have is a manual selector between soft (comfort) and hard (sport) modes in the suspension - but the suspension computer still overrides this setting and takes decission from a whole range of sensors fitted all over the car.
The decision algorithm is fairly complex - but generally it obeys to rules for safe handling of the car at speeds & turns - where the soft suspension can make the car dangerous.
Some hi-end models have both the anti-sink and HA2 system fitted - likely on your V6.
You may say this system overcomes the compromise on earlier systems with a soft comfortable suspension - and the resulting risc of instability at hi speeds.
You can NOT have both a soft suspension and hi speed car stability. But you can switch between soft suspension at lo speed - and hard suspension at hi speed - if you put enough smart stuff in the car.
If you want more detailed info - I recommand you read all the suspension chapters in the following document.
Despite some minor mistakes here & there - it's the best document available I've ever seen - giving enough details for the technical minded - at the same time not getting too deep for the more all-round car minded :
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/guide.html
It's only some 600Kb pdf document - quickly downloaded.
morgaine
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Post by morgaine »

Now it's just picking on me...
I drove into work fine this morning, and then halfway home. Stopped at a shop, when I switched the Xantia back on the back end would not rise. I messed about setting the height control for ages, with no joy, so I decided to crawl home as I was only a few miles away. At the end of the road I touched the brakes to slow down, and nothing happened, then the brakes kicked in really hard. like HARD hard.
I limped down to the nearest safe pull in spot with the brakes doing this all the way and stopped. When pressing the brake pedal I got a noise like using a foot pump. I pumped the brakes a few times, then the brakes decided to come back, and when I put the suspension setting to full, the car rose up as it has been doing.
I need the car desperately as I have an 80 mile daily round trip to work, so one way or the other I think I will have to try to make a safe working area for the weekend. I guess this is a pressure thing so an accumulator sphere, but would this point to the main one on the engine or the one at the back? I'm currently downloading Acrobat Reader so I can go through the pdf you recommend above and see if I can get my head round it.
I think I need to replace everything in one go, as I want to make sure all is safe. I am thinking replace whichever accumulator sphere has gone, free up the height adjustors and source my LHM leak. Do you know if there is a good supplier I can purchase the accumulator sphere from online, my nearest Cit dealer turns out to be miles away!
Thanks
Morg - traumatised :(
philhoward

Post by philhoward »

Use the GSF online shop...quick and easy. Could it be that the anti-sink or accumulator sphere is failing big time and dumping loads of air into the hydraulics? <--Thought for the likes of AndersDK...
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