Citroën C5 TOURER 2.0 HDi - How to get CV joint off the shaft?

[RichardW]

The instructions for the boot say remove the clips on the inner joint, then slide the end off. Remove a circlip from the end of the shaft. Slide the gaiter up the shaft, then drive the tripod off the end of the shaft (take care here - not sure if the 3 rollers are retained - on earlier Cits they were famous for not being, and falling off when disturbed, spraying needle rollers everywhere!). You can now slide the inner boot off, then the outer boot, which can then be replaced. If you're careful with the inner gaiter, and you get new clips, you should be able to re-use it.

Not relevant here, but the PSA driveshafts have a non removable inner joint, so replacement of this boot has to be done by removing the outboard end first!!

[sparksie]

Hi Richard
Thanks for that.
I mostly use stretchy boots, to avoid disturbing joints I intend reusing, so those will never bother me!
It is possible to do those without the correct tool, using a cheap plastic cone, from a motor factors, but it's messy and easy to split the boot, or the hand you're using to force it up the cone, so I'd urge DIYers to go the extra mile and dismantle it, providing it CAN be done.
If replacing an inner joint, which is very rare, I'd know if it wasn't dismantleable, but if it had escaped my notice, the size of the box the new one came in would be a good clue!

[Schavlik]

The instructions for the boot say remove the clips on the inner joint, then slide the end off. Remove a circlip from the end of the shaft. Slide the gaiter up the shaft, then drive the tripod off the end of the shaft (take care here - not sure if the 3 rollers are retained - on earlier Cits they were famous for not being, and falling off when disturbed, spraying needle rollers everywhere!). You can now slide the inner boot off, then the outer boot, which can then be replaced. If you're careful with the inner gaiter, and you get new clips, you should be able to re-use it.

Not relevant here, but the PSA driveshafts have a non removable inner joint, so replacement of this boot has to be done by removing the outboard end first!!

Great instructions, thank you so much! I'll tell my dad tomorrow and hopefully everything will work

[Schavlik]

Hi Richard
Thanks for that.
I mostly use stretchy boots, to avoid disturbing joints I intend reusing, so those will never bother me!
It is possible to do those without the correct tool, using a cheap plastic cone, from a motor factors, but it's messy and easy to split the boot, or the hand you're using to force it up the cone, so I'd urge DIYers to go the extra mile and dismantle it, providing it CAN be done.
If replacing an inner joint, which is very rare, I'd know if it wasn't dismantleable, but if it had escaped my notice, the size of the box the new one came in would be a good clue!

Not that I know anything about cars, but aren't stretchy boots more likely to break than plastic ones?

[sparksie]

It depends on conditions of use.
I used to split them during fitting, until I got used to it, but none that survived being fitted has ever needed doing again before the joint needed replacing, in my experience.
I wouldn't advocate them for an off-roader, or a car used for high speeds on gravel/dirt roads, where debris is likely to be a problem.
On normal roads, under normal conditions, they're fine. Remember some drives don't come apart and the only options are a stretchy boot, or a whole new drive.
Under normal conditions, a stretchy boot is actually less likely to get pulled off the joint than a plastic one. Without the right tool, it's not easy to tighten the clips enough to retain a plastic boot under full lock.
There are also "split boot" kits available and, while I've had success with those, there is a very real danger of gluing yourself to the car and, after taking the risk, the boot will probably not last as long as a proper one, though I've not had to replace any yet.

[Schavlik]

It depends on conditions of use.
I used to split them during fitting, until I got used to it, but none that survived being fitted has ever needed doing again before the joint needed replacing, in my experience.
I wouldn't advocate them for an off-roader, or a car used for high speeds on gravel/dirt roads, where debris is likely to be a problem.
On normal roads, under normal conditions, they're fine. Remember some drives don't come apart and the only options are a stretchy boot, or a whole new drive.
Under normal conditions, a stretchy boot is actually less likely to get pulled off the joint than a plastic one. Without the right tool, it's not easy to tighten the clips enough to retain a plastic boot under full lock.
There are also "split boot" kits available and, while I've had success with those, there is a very real danger of gluing yourself to the car and, after taking the risk, the boot will probably not last as long as a proper one, though I've not had to replace any yet.

Ahh okay. I've learned so much today, everything from physical disassembly to actual information. Really appreciate everyone's help here, super nice community

[sparksie]

Not sure you can get plastic inner joint boots.
The inner joint has to "plunge" to allow the shaft length to vary with suspension travel.
This means the boot has to allow a much greater range of movement and plastics just aren't flexible enough, I believe. Open to correction, mind!
PSA and Fiat mostly use a tripod joint at the gearbox end, which is a cheap elegant solution, but you do need to be careful with them.
As Richard W kindly pointed out, some of them don't have any circlips retaining the rollers, so until you're sure it's safe, keep the tripod vertical so gravity doesn't make the job much more difficult than it needs to be.
If you're unlucky enough to drop a roller, don't panic.
They're pretty tough and, as long as there's no visible mark on it, you should be able to reuse it.
Carefully clean it and all the needle roller bearings with petrol, or a cleaning spray, dry them off and reassemble them carefully, using grease to "glue" them in place. Make sure you have ALL the needles though!
Better, on the whole, to keep them intact.

[Schavlik]

Not sure you can get plastic inner joint boots.
The inner joint has to "plunge" to allow the shaft length to vary with suspension travel.
This means the boot has to allow a much greater range of movement and plastics just aren't flexible enough, I believe. Open to correction, mind!
PSA and Fiat mostly use a tripod joint at the gearbox end, which is a cheap elegant solution, but you do need to be careful with them.
As Richard W kindly pointed out, some of them don't have any circlips retaining the rollers, so until you're sure it's safe, keep the tripod vertical so gravity doesn't make the job much more difficult than it needs to be.
If you're unlucky enough to drop a roller, don't panic.
They're pretty tough and, as long as there's no visible mark on it, you should be able to reuse it.
Carefully clean it and all the needle roller bearings with petrol, or a cleaning spray, dry them off and reassemble them carefully, using grease to "glue" them in place. Make sure you have ALL the needles though!
Better, on the whole, to keep them intact.

It's interesting how much technology has changed since my dad's ''prime'' years. He used to run a very successful car workshop in the 90's (Belarus) where he and his friends fixed problems even official car retailers refused to fix. And now, he is so far behind when it comes to all new technology. Today when we were disassembling and trying to get to the CV joint, he was winging it and figuring out as we went.

[sparksie]

Yes, that's becoming more difficult, but can still work out sometimes.
Give him Marc's diagrams to help put it back properly and it should all be fine.
Given how disgracefully inaccurate the most popular workshop manuals are, these days, every workshop still has to do a certain amount of winging it. The thing is to have suitable intuition and not disturb things you can't put back.
Good luck tomorrow

[Schavlik]

Yes, that's becoming more difficult, but can still work out sometimes.
Give him Marc's diagrams to help put it back properly and it should all be fine.
Given how disgracefully inaccurate the most popular workshop manuals are, these days, every workshop still has to do a certain amount of winging it. The thing is to have suitable intuition and not disturb things you can't put back.
Good luck tomorrow

Thanks for the good luck wishes! Also just funny note: We called a workshop to ask how much it would cost to replace the cv boot and they said 14.000SEK which is 1220 Brittish pounds. Absolutely insane

[Homer]

There used to be shafts that simply couldn't be dismantled at all,

Used to be when?

I've done plenty of BX boots and one or two on a Xantia. You popped the CV joint stub axle out of the hub then gave it a sharp tap with a rubber mallet and it popped off. It was only held in by a spring clip which would usually be buggered or lost by popping it off and need replacing. I rarely needed to remove the inner end at all and would generally try to avoid it.

Sliding a boot right the way along the driveshaft from the inner end would have been impossible without splitting it, the shaft was just too thick.

The quick alternative was to use a split boot but those never lasted long.

Looking at service.citroen.com the C5 is the same, the wheel side gaiter kit comes with a spring clip. I never had to do one myself though.

[Gibbo2286]

There used to be shafts that simply couldn't be dismantled at all,

Used to be when?

I've done plenty of BX boots and one or two on a Xantia. You popped the CV joint stub axle out of the hub then gave it a sharp tap with a rubber mallet and it popped off. It was only held in by a spring clip which would usually be buggered or lost by popping it off and need replacing. I rarely needed to remove the inner end at all and would generally try to avoid it.

Sliding a boot right the way along the driveshaft from the inner end would have been impossible without splitting it, the shaft was just too thick.

The quick alternative was to use a split boot but those never lasted long.

Looking at service.citroen.com the C5 is the same, the wheel side gaiter kit comes with a spring clip. I never had to do one myself though.

I think this is the most relevant post to the op's problem, I think the op has the drive shaft out and just needs to separate the CV joint from it, they can be difficult and I've seen them damaged by too much bashing to get them off, my method has been to clamp the shaft in a vice and use a couple of levers (pry bars) to pull the joint off, even pressure from both sides is better than a whack from one side. The spring clip can sometimes be reused after careful reshaping with pliers.

[GiveMeABreak]

As Richard already pointed out there are several types of Driveshaft fitted to the X7, so the OP will need to identify the correct one from the original shaft label before proceeding with either of the methods below.

Note: Both methods included here, but only one will be relevant!

The drive shafts are identified by a label stuck to the shaft (at "a") containing the supplier reference. List of suppliers: GKN PSA NTN

Official Tooling

	Intentionally Blank

Preliminary Operations

N.B.: The ABS crowns are discontinued (the function fulfilled by the crowns is transferred to the front wheel bearings).

• Remove the drive shafts.
• Support the drive shaft in a vice fitted with soft jaws.

N.B.: Before removal : Mark the positions of the driveshaft gaiters.

Replacement: Wheel End Gaiter

CAUTION: Always replace the clips and circlips that have been removed.

PSA and NTN driveshafts

(1) Remove the clips (1) and (2); Using a hacksaw. N.B.: Mark the gaiter position on driveshafts not having position grooves at "a".	(2) Remove the housing (3); Using the tools [0316-A], [4083-T / 0410-A].
(3) Remove: The stop ring (4) The drive shaft gaiter (5) Refit: The drive shaft gaiter (5) (new) The stop ring (4) (new)	(4) Fit a clip (6) on the stop ring to facilitate force-fitting of the housing (3).
	(5) Refit the housing (3) to the shaft; Using the tools [0316-A], [4083-T / 0410-A]. Remove the collar (6). Fill the gaiter with all the grease available in the repair kit. Refit the gaiter (5) on the housing (3). CAUTION: Pay attention to the location of the gaiter on the shaft: gaiter lip in the groove "a" or on the mark made when removing. Refit and tighten the clips (1) and (2).

GKN Driveshaft

N.B.: The driveshaft bowl on the wheel side cannot be removed; The replacing of a wheel-end driveshaft gaiter necessitates the removal of the gearbox-end gaiter.

(1) Remove: The drive shaft gaiter (on the gearbox side) The clips (7), (8) The drive shaft gaiter (9) Refit the driveshaft gaiter (9) on the driveshaft. Fill the gaiter with all the grease available in the repair kit. Refit: The collars (7) and (8) The drive shaft gaiter (on the gearbox side)

Replacement: Gearbox End Gaiter

CAUTION: Always replace the clips and circlips that have been removed.

GKN and NTN Driveshafts

(1) Remove the clips (10), (13). Move aside the driveshaft gaiter (11). Remove vertically the spider ecu(12). Remove as much grease as possible from inside the gaiter.	(2) Remove the excess grease from the gaiter and on the tripod. Remove circlip (14)
	(3) Remove the tripod (15); Using a hammer and a pin punch. Remove the driveshaft gaiter (11). Refit the driveshaft gaiter (11) on the driveshaft (new). Refit: The tripod (15) The circlip (14) Fill the gaiter with all the grease available in the repair kit. Refit: The tripod housing (12) The collars (10) and (13)

PSA Driveshaft

N.B.: At the gearbox end, as the spider cannot be removed, replacement of the gaiter is only possible following removal of the seal at the wheel end.

(1) Remove: The drive shaft gaiter (road wheel side) The clips (10), (13) The tripod housing (12) The drive shaft gaiter (11) Take as much grease as possible off the driveshaft seal; Do not use solvents. Fit the new gaiter (11) on the drive shaft. Spread the grease between the gaiter and the tripod. Refit: The tripod housing (12) The clips (10), (13) The drive shaft gaiter (road wheel side)

Clips

Position the driveshaft gaiter (18) (Observe the marks made during the dismantling operation). Refit the new clips (16) and (17) ; Using the special tool (According to the clips): CLIC clips; Using tool [0409] OETIKER clips; Using tool [0412]	Tighten the wing clips; Using the tools [0413] or [0409].
Tighten the clips : Until there is contact "A" = 0 mm.	After tightening: Check the space "B" = 0,5 to 1 mm. Refit the drive shafts.

[Schavlik]

Thank you for these informative pictures, you've been of tremendous help. We tried joint puller but sadly, it did not work which seems to suggest that it is in fact a GKN shaft. The headache continues as the next step is to buy stretchy gaiters and put them on from the outer shaft side.

I'm not sure how good of an idea that is but I guess we'll see

[sparksie]

I've seen that tip for using a hose clip as a sort of ring compressor, to hold the c-clip in the groove while refitting the joint, but I can never find one that's correctly shaped, as in the pictures. Mine always have a big lump to hold the worm screw and won't be pushed along the shaft squarely, like the nice parallel sided one in the pic. I've always managed to get them in without it, with a bit of coaxing. Brute force is not the answer and will invariably damage, maybe even destroy, the c-clip.
In answer to Homer's question, I can't recall when the one-piece drives were in common use, but I would have been not long out of school and the cars we found them on would have been out of warranty, in the second half of the 1980s, so I suspect they may have been manufactured in the early 1980's, or late 1970s. Pretty sure they were French, though could be wrong.
They were an absolute pig to change boots on, using the plastic cone to stretch the boot and the task was left to me, with my expendable novice hands. Unlike modern, symmetric shafts, the off side one was longer and had a fat, hollow section which precluded fitting the outer boot over the slightly smaller inner joint. This problem no longer exists, as nowadays the cvs are equidistant from the wheels and the shafts are narrow, solid and, mostly parallel sided affairs.
Schavlik, if I were you, I would be dismantling the inner end and sliding the boot along the shaft. Now that I've seen the pictures and know exactly what I'm talking about, I can tell you it really is not difficult. If your existing inner boots are still in GOOD condition, then with care you can reuse them. All that stands in your way is a single, male circlip, which you can easily undo with incorrect tools, if you don't have a circlip pliers.
I'm a little surprised they show a hammer and punch being used to remove the tripod. I cannot recall ever having to do that, but maybe tolerances are tight enough nowadays to make this necessary. In my experience I was always able to slide them off the splines by hand, with the occasional fiddle to get over the circlip groove. I'd definitely much rather do that than try to get a stretchy boot on without the pneumatic stretcher!
having said that, it CAN be done with a cone made from plastic bottles, if you're determined enough