x7 steering rack - Gone again

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x7 steering rack - Gone again

Post by KennyW »

Hi all,

Well I have a leak from the LP pipe going into/out of pinion, Can anyone tell me which seal size I fit ?

I'm going to replace both seals as I had used the old seals when changing the rack in the spring was moving house misplaced my seals and required the car urgently. Managed to get 6 months out of them.

Kenny
Last edited by KennyW on 29 May 2019, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by bobins »

The genuine article ones that fit are 7.6mm x 1.8mm and 8.7mm x 1.8mm, so a very rough approximation of those will work, but make sure you use LDS resilient 'O' rings. However.... the conclusion that I came to - having had to deal with this problem - was that the 'O' ring seals were only part of the problem. I reckoned that the main problem was that the LP pipe was not far off 'one time fit only'.
For explanantion, have a look at my two posts here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61066&p=587865#p587884
Last edited by bobins on 04 Nov 2018, 21:14, edited 1 time in total.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I bought the Peugeot ones linked to in my post here Kenny:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60155&p=576184&hili ... ot#p575859

Although the listing has ended the listing shows the seal part numbers, so you may find another listing - or there is another link where you can but them from in that thread on an individual basis.
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by bobins »

The genuine seals are still available from LCS Louth via eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-CITR ... 3303587562
but I'd caution against fitting them and hoping the problem's cured. I tried various sizes of 'O' rings - including the genuine ones and oversize ones - and none of them worked for very long. I'm convinced the problem was down to the worn out 'flange' embossed into the aluminium LP pipe. The steel HP pipe was fine.
'Wheeler' has been waiting ages for a new pipe from Citroen, so if you need a new pipe it might be worth investigating companies that can fabricate new aluminium LP power steering pipes. There's a break in the pipe around the area of the front corner (passenger side) just ahead of the roadwheel where a new pipe can be easily joined into the flexi pipe wiith a simple compression joint - so you actually only need half of the complete run of LP pipe.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by KennyW »

Thanks Marc and Bobbins for the replies,

I'm tempted to glue the joint with something like JW weldglue, I've used this on various knackered threads and other items with great success. This would be a last resort if the seals fail to work.

Kenny
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by bobins »

I scratched various parts of my anatomy trying to come up with a solution that would work, but in the end opted to fit the nearly new spare LP pipe I had sitting in my shed.

The two options I was playing with was either to fit a ~0.5mm LDS proof ring seal around the pipe at point 'A' where the flange sits on its seat, or to use a ~0.5mm packing piece at point 'B' to enanble the flange to press fully home into its seat. Any more than 0.5mm would probably throw out the how the steel HP pipe seats in its recess.
LP steering pipe - own work
LP steering pipe - own work
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by white exec »

The design of the joint looks as of it is intended that the ali tube is held rigidly in its circular groove, leaving just the green O-ring to achieve a fluid seal. A problem with fitting additional O-rings on the underside of the collar/ridge is that the pipe could then flex in the casting, and cause the green O-ring to eventually leak.
Might be worth checking the smoothness of the bore, and then fitting a new tight-fit (Viton) ring to replace the green one, lubricating it as it is fitted. I think the pipe must be clamped solid: use an opened-up or two halves of a washer or similar on the topside if necessary, to provide extra packing, and the same on the other pipe to equalize the arrangement, if that thick plate is movable.
Polymax UK have a vast selection of Viton O-ring sizes,
Chris
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by KennyW »

Quick question how much lds fluid is required to fill the system as I'm going to drain my reservoir on Saturday to replace the seals.
or
Just depressurize the front axle ?

What is the correct option ?!!!!

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by bobins »

Presumably you're on squidgy suspension and not steel sprung ? Not sure about the hydropneumatic ones, but on the steel sprung ones - if you remove the drivers front wheel arch liner (very simple operation - just a few clips and screws) then you can get to the pipe the goes from the LDS reservoir to the pump and put a pipe clamp on it. This massively reduces the resultant fluid loss to an awful lot less than half a litre.
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here's the procedure Kenny, but I would depressurise the whole circuit.

Again procedure here for depressurising using Diagbox: (again if raising car off the ground with wheels hanging freely, remove LDS cap first)
  • Start the engine.
  • Set the height control to the "LOW" position.
  • Wait for the vehicle height to be in the required position.
  • Stop the engine.
  • Connect the to vehicle’s diagnostic socket.
  • Switch on the ignition.
  • Carry out an global test.
  • Go into the menu: 'Suspension', 'Depressurizing the system' & follow the instructions displayed on the screen.
  • Wait for the vehicle’s suspension to sink completely.
N.B.: This takes around 3 minutes.
  • Switch off the ignition.
  • Disconnect the battery.
You'll also need to bleed the system afterwards. I've included the procedure here for hydraulic and non-hydraulically suspended systems:
Kenny Steering D.PNG
Tool for Filling Metallically Suspended Systems Only
Proceed with care in order to avoid entry of pollutant particles.
  • Use new oil for filling and topping up the hydraulic power steering circuit.
  • Use only the hydraulic fluid TOTAL FLUIDE DA.
N.B.: Draining of the hydraulic circuit must be carried out with the engine switched off.

Remember: If raising vehicle off the ground with all wheels hanging freely and unsupported, remove the LDS cap from the suspension tank before lifting.

Lift and support the vehicle with the wheels free.
Disconnect the battery.
Remove:
  • The front right wheel
  • The protective panel under the engine
  • The front right mud guard
  • The cap of the power steering fluid tank
Kenny Steering A.PNG
Kenny Steering B.png
Draining
  • Remove the collar (1).
  • Uncouple the pipe (2).
  • Feed the pipe into a tray.
  • Turn the steering from lock to lock in each direction.
  • Wait for the oil to finish draining.
Filling
Couple the pipe (2).
Refit the clip (1).
Refit:
  • The front right mud guard
  • The protective panel under the engine
  • The front right wheel
  • Tighten the wheel bolts.
Position tool [1] in its place (Metallic Suspension)
Fill the fluid reservoir to the max. level ( as "b") (Hydraulic suspension).
Refill the tank of the power steering electropump assembly up to level "a" of the tool [1] (Metallic suspension).
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Bleeding the Hydraulic Power Steering Circuit (Electro Pump only)

CAUTION: The electropump assembly must never be run without oil in the power steering circuit.
Hydraulic Suspension
  • Apply a pressure of 0,5 bars in the LDS fluid tank; (using a FACOM 920 tool).
  • Reconnect the battery.
  • Start the engine, with the wheels straight ahead without touching the steering wheel.
  • Wait for the vehicle height to stabilise.
  • Put the vehicle in the high position then in the low position.
  • Top up the level (if necessary).
  • Move the steering slowly, from stop to stop, in both directions, 10 or so times, with the wheels on the ground.
N.B.: Do not hold the steering on the stop in order to prevent the opening of the pressure limiter.
  • Check there are no bubbles in the tank.
  • If some bubbles are present in the tank, allow it to degas completely ( 3 to 5 minutes), engine running without moving the steering wheel.
  • Carry out 5 new movements of the steering slowly, from stop to stop, in both directions, with the wheels on the ground.
  • Repeat this phase until the bubbles completely disappear from the surface of the fluid in the tank.
  • Put the vehicle in the high position then in the low position.
Kenny Steering C.PNG
Level:
as "b" : Max
as "c" : Min
  • Check the level and that there are no bubbles in the tank.
  • Carry out a road test and check the level of power steering fluid (With the engine stopped, and the cap screwed on, oil temperature 30°C).
N.B.: There must be no bubbles in the tank, otherwise repeat the bleeding procedure.
Metallic Suspension
  • Reconnect the battery.
  • Start the engine.
  • Turn on the engine and let it idle for 2 to 3 minutes, without moving the steering wheel (Top up with oil if necessary).
  • Move the steering slowly, from stop to stop, in both directions, 10 or so times, with the wheels on the ground.
N.B. : Do not hold the steering on the stop in order to prevent the opening of the pressure limiter.
  • Remove tool [1].
  • Check there are no bubbles in the tank.
  • Top up the power steering fluid to the maximum level of the tank.
  • If some bubbles are present in the tank, allow it to degas completely ( 3 to 5 minutes), engine running without moving the steering wheel.
  • Carry out 5 new movements of the steering slowly, from stop to stop, in both directions, with the wheels on the ground.
  • Repeat this phase until the bubbles completely disappear from the surface of the fluid in the tank.
  • Carry out a road test and check the level of power steering fluid (With the engine stopped, and the cap screwed on, oil temperature 30°C).
N.B. : There must be no bubbles in the tank, otherwise repeat the bleeding procedure.
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by EDC5 »

This procedure will be useful for when I replace the fluid in the steering system of my X7 later on this year.

I wasn't going to do it but after I had to remove the LDS reservoir to recondition the suspension pump I noticed the the fluid for the power steering circuit was black :o
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by KennyW »

Thanks for the replies,

I can never get my diagbox to work right so I will depressurise the system using the valves on the front strut and rear at or near to height corrector as per citroen.

Sorry if the typing seems a bit odd the 'c' is not working that well :lol:

Kenny
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Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by white exec »

KennyW wrote: 11 Nov 2018, 17:01 Sorry if the typing seems a bit odd the 'c' is not working that well :lol:
Sell the car, and get a Peugeot. [-(
Chris
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Re: x7 steering rack

Post by KennyW »

Hi All,

Got the car on a ramp and changed the seals on the pinion pipes (see how long they stay sealed).

What fun :wink:

Also replaced the steering gaiters even more fun :wink:

Managed to check front brakes and they'll survive for a bot longer. The rear bakes will last the winter but will need replacing in the spring.

Winter tyres being fitted this week at my work.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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