How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Moderator: RichardW
-
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 02 Jan 2013, 14:03
- Location: Greater Manchester (Formerly of Ireland)
- My Cars: Well missed Xantia Activa
Another missed Xantia 2.0hdi
Current C5 Estate HDi - x 1
How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Hello all,
Started a new job which requires me to drive to Liverpool for a month or so. I've to negotiate the motorway network at peak hours now; lots of stop start driving, 1st-2nd gear stuff.
The temp coolant guage seems to rise to about 3/4rs of the way up (maybe a little more), not very far off the red zone when sitting in traffic. It's never overheated or never gave me an overheating warning on the display. The Oil temp gauge never seems to be above 1/2 or so.
Now the C5 I had before this, didn't seem to get as toasty, but I wasn't doing this sort of urban driving and it was a few years ago so I could be mistaken.
I've pulled the connector from the temp sender and it's immediately triggered the overheat warning and tripped the fan, whirred away happily. I had a very brief look at the wiring and it seems like it's okay. The relay is happy too, gave it a quick test. So I think it's okay?
Am I just overreacting? Will the fan eventually trip on? I don't want to overheat it on the M60 in the morning, it's not the most ideal spot.
Started a new job which requires me to drive to Liverpool for a month or so. I've to negotiate the motorway network at peak hours now; lots of stop start driving, 1st-2nd gear stuff.
The temp coolant guage seems to rise to about 3/4rs of the way up (maybe a little more), not very far off the red zone when sitting in traffic. It's never overheated or never gave me an overheating warning on the display. The Oil temp gauge never seems to be above 1/2 or so.
Now the C5 I had before this, didn't seem to get as toasty, but I wasn't doing this sort of urban driving and it was a few years ago so I could be mistaken.
I've pulled the connector from the temp sender and it's immediately triggered the overheat warning and tripped the fan, whirred away happily. I had a very brief look at the wiring and it seems like it's okay. The relay is happy too, gave it a quick test. So I think it's okay?
Am I just overreacting? Will the fan eventually trip on? I don't want to overheat it on the M60 in the morning, it's not the most ideal spot.
Phase 2 Xantia HDi
Sold
Phase 1 Xantia Activia
Sold
Phase 2 Citroen C5
Sold
And a current semi-working MK1 C5 Hdi 110.
Sold
Phase 1 Xantia Activia
Sold
Phase 2 Citroen C5
Sold
And a current semi-working MK1 C5 Hdi 110.
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 37005
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5646
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
The fan on your C5 is a single fan and either dual or triple speed.
On the dual fan assembly, the fan comes on at single speed at 97 °C, and the second speed at 105 °C.
The three speed fan system kicks in at 97 °C for first speed, 101 °C (or 17 bar in the cooling circuit) and third speed at 105 °C (or 30 bar in the cooling circuit). The warning kicks in at 118 °C.
So I wouldn't worry too much about it as these are quite high values before the fans kick in.
I would just add a Chop Suey alert here - be warned that on this system the fans can kick in without the ignition being on so just be aware.
On the dual fan assembly, the fan comes on at single speed at 97 °C, and the second speed at 105 °C.
The three speed fan system kicks in at 97 °C for first speed, 101 °C (or 17 bar in the cooling circuit) and third speed at 105 °C (or 30 bar in the cooling circuit). The warning kicks in at 118 °C.
So I wouldn't worry too much about it as these are quite high values before the fans kick in.
I would just add a Chop Suey alert here - be warned that on this system the fans can kick in without the ignition being on so just be aware.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- white exec
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 7445
- Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
- Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
- My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Is that really 17 and 30bar in that cooling system, Marc?
That's way above normal lift-off cap pressure of 1.5 to 2bar.
That's way above normal lift-off cap pressure of 1.5 to 2bar.
Chris
- EDC5
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 1216
- Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
- Location: N. Wales
- My Cars: Citroen C5 RHR AM6
- x 120
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
I recently bought a new official Citroen reservoir cap and it had a blow-off pressure of 20psi.
How is the pressure measured in the cooling system?
How is the pressure measured in the cooling system?
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 37005
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5646
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Hi Chris - yes, those are the stated values - but I think they are relating to the overall 'cooling' system and are including the air conditioning circuit for this - probably factoring in the high pressure of the A/C gas in hot conditions were the compressor would cut out if the system wasn't getting enough cooling.
We know already that the slowest speed of the fan kicks in straight away when the car is at standstill and the A/C in in operation.
We know already that the slowest speed of the fan kicks in straight away when the car is at standstill and the A/C in in operation.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- moizeau
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 1580
- Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
- Location: France 36
- My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped) - x 315
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Possibly PSI? 30 bar is 3 times the level of guarantee for house plumbing?
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 37005
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5646
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
No definitely BAR Pete. - But as I said this may include the A/C as part of the 'cooling' system, as I mentioned above.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 37005
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5646
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
As I thought - this explains the influence of the A/C system on the Fan speed:
For cooling of the condenser, the B.R.A.C. function (Air Conditioning Need For Cooling) supplies the F.R.I.C. function (Cooling Function Integrated into the Engine ECU) with a reference speed in accordance with the pressure of the air conditioning circuit.
The linear pressure sensor of the refrigerant fluid fitted on the condenser supplies a voltage proportional to the pressure in the air conditioning circuit and transmits this information to the BSI on the CAN IS network.
The built-in systems interface sends a speed setting to the engine management ECU to control the variable speed of the fan assembly.
For cooling of the condenser, the B.R.A.C. function (Air Conditioning Need For Cooling) supplies the F.R.I.C. function (Cooling Function Integrated into the Engine ECU) with a reference speed in accordance with the pressure of the air conditioning circuit.
The linear pressure sensor of the refrigerant fluid fitted on the condenser supplies a voltage proportional to the pressure in the air conditioning circuit and transmits this information to the BSI on the CAN IS network.
The built-in systems interface sends a speed setting to the engine management ECU to control the variable speed of the fan assembly.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
-
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 13727
- Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
- Location: Reading
- My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
- x 2993
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Marc, is it possible you missed a decimal point? 30Bar is about 450PSI!
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
- moizeau
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 1580
- Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
- Location: France 36
- My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped) - x 315
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
The rubber hoses can't take that, otherwise everyone would plumb there house with hosepipe!
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 37005
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5646
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Guys - I don't think you are understanding this is NOT the pressure in the engine water coolant system!
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- moizeau
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 1580
- Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
- Location: France 36
- My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped) - x 315
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
Marc, I had the OP's question in my mind, you went in to too much detail (for my brain) saying why and when the fans cut in
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
-
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 13727
- Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
- Location: Reading
- My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
- x 2993
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
GiveMeABreak wrote: ↑21 Oct 2018, 17:28 The three speed fan system kicks in at 97 °C for first speed, 101 °C (or 17 bar in the cooling circuit) and third speed at 105 °C (or 30 bar in the cooling circuit). The warning kicks in at 118 °C.
That looks like you ARE talking about pressure in the engine water coolant system, Marc.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 37005
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5646
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
it’s late in the day Pete
But as you can see the temperature in the high pressure circuit can indeed reach such high pressures depending on ambient temp which can impact the cooling efficiency:
But as you can see the temperature in the high pressure circuit can indeed reach such high pressures depending on ambient temp which can impact the cooling efficiency:
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 37005
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5646
Re: How hot is too hot? [DW10ATED MK1 C5]
yes but I did qualify the definition in a later post James. That was PSA terminology, don’t shoot the messenger.Hell Razor5543 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2018, 18:50GiveMeABreak wrote: ↑21 Oct 2018, 17:28 The three speed fan system kicks in at 97 °C for first speed, 101 °C (or 17 bar in the cooling circuit) and third speed at 105 °C (or 30 bar in the cooling circuit). The warning kicks in at 118 °C.
That looks like you ARE talking about pressure in the engine water coolant system, Marc.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc