I was going to post this under "TD rad problem" but as answering this as well as sorting "batwads" prob may get confusing I decided to make a seperate post.
[:)] My zx temp runs at 80 even in summer, but at odd times when stuck in traffic during the summer I have known it go over 90, (even at 80 if the heats put on max, fan on 4 the heat would drive you out in 5 mins! its gets HOT!)
But.. I have never seen or heard either of the radiator fans running? I asked my tame mech to check they were working, he said they were fine, but I would like to test them myself, is there any easy way to do this? I dont own a voltage meter, and wouldn't know how to use it if I had one [:I] (I have a huge pair of jump leads tho [;)] [:D]) ..
Idealy I would like to do two tests. (A) test that both fans are in working order.. (B) that the elec temp sensor, thermostat, whatever (?) that turns them on is working and set at the right level, whatever that is. [:I]
Please bear in mind that the last time i worked on an engine they had cut out and regulators fed by dynamos.. [:I] [:I] I never heard of a relay in a curcuit (whatever that is) till I started reading these forums, Anders said we are never to old to learn, I sure hope he's right. lol. [:D]
ZX fans. Info would be appreciated..
Moderator: RichardW
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Jon
Hi James
I would not get over worried here, the fans on my ZX cut in at 92 degrees, and they only ever cut in when in motorway traffic jams after hot running, or long jams in summer (A30 Cornwall in August anyone??)
If you look at the brass part of the rad fan thermoswitch you will find the temperatures that it will operate at are stamped into it, on a ZX TD its some thing like "88/92" but I have seen "92/97" on cars with aircon.
If you are in any doubt, then replace the thermo switch for the sake of a few quid, its better than a head gasket job. You may also want to think about replacing your Thermostat if it is the original, again, cheap. Most ZX D/TD's that I drive show the gauge just under 90 on the motorway (as the gauge is hard to judge thats probably somewhere over 80)
A simple way to check that the fans do actually operate is to remove the multiblock connection from the thermoswitch, then bridge 2 of the terminals with a piece of wire, at least one fan should then kick in. (Ignition on). On my car, when it has got very hot then the fans will continue to operate after the engine is off. At this point I generally open the bonnet to give all that heat somewhere to go.
I would not get over worried here, the fans on my ZX cut in at 92 degrees, and they only ever cut in when in motorway traffic jams after hot running, or long jams in summer (A30 Cornwall in August anyone??)
If you look at the brass part of the rad fan thermoswitch you will find the temperatures that it will operate at are stamped into it, on a ZX TD its some thing like "88/92" but I have seen "92/97" on cars with aircon.
If you are in any doubt, then replace the thermo switch for the sake of a few quid, its better than a head gasket job. You may also want to think about replacing your Thermostat if it is the original, again, cheap. Most ZX D/TD's that I drive show the gauge just under 90 on the motorway (as the gauge is hard to judge thats probably somewhere over 80)
A simple way to check that the fans do actually operate is to remove the multiblock connection from the thermoswitch, then bridge 2 of the terminals with a piece of wire, at least one fan should then kick in. (Ignition on). On my car, when it has got very hot then the fans will continue to operate after the engine is off. At this point I generally open the bonnet to give all that heat somewhere to go.
u can performa test on the fans if u run a bit of wire to each point of the plug that goes onto the fan switch it wil either comeon on it wont!thats to tell u if ur fans are workin!!
to see if ur thermostat is workin then take it out and put it into a jug of boilin hot water it shud open upif it doesnt then thats bust up too.
hopefully this helped
to see if ur thermostat is workin then take it out and put it into a jug of boilin hot water it shud open upif it doesnt then thats bust up too.
hopefully this helped
Hi Jon, and thanks for the info.
Erm "remove the multiblock connection from the thermoswitch," hhmm yeah right [:o)] lol.. what's that in english please Jon? [:I] and where would one find them? Do you mean the temp sender thing in the radiator? (the ones we used to pull the connectors off and join them together in the ole days to keep the fans on all the time?) [:D]
I had the thermostat changed when I bought the car, along with a full service and cambelt change. I also recently replaced the Radiator cap. So they should be ok. I do the rad and coolant check, i.e. levels, and check for bubbles with engine ticking over most weekends, weather permitting, as I quite enjoy making sure everything looks clean and in good working order under the bonnet. [8)] But the fact that I haven't seen those pesky fans move kinda worries me. lol.. And to make it even worse they both look brand new? Like they have never been used?
I will buy a new "thermo switch" tomorrow, find out where it goes, and fit it.. Thanks again. [:)]
Erm "remove the multiblock connection from the thermoswitch," hhmm yeah right [:o)] lol.. what's that in english please Jon? [:I] and where would one find them? Do you mean the temp sender thing in the radiator? (the ones we used to pull the connectors off and join them together in the ole days to keep the fans on all the time?) [:D]
I had the thermostat changed when I bought the car, along with a full service and cambelt change. I also recently replaced the Radiator cap. So they should be ok. I do the rad and coolant check, i.e. levels, and check for bubbles with engine ticking over most weekends, weather permitting, as I quite enjoy making sure everything looks clean and in good working order under the bonnet. [8)] But the fact that I haven't seen those pesky fans move kinda worries me. lol.. And to make it even worse they both look brand new? Like they have never been used?
I will buy a new "thermo switch" tomorrow, find out where it goes, and fit it.. Thanks again. [:)]
Hi James - how about taking the car out for a run, then leaving it to tick over for 10 mins or so. The gauge should rise and you can keep an eye on it. If it gets much avove 3/4, I'd expect the fans to kick in.
If they don't kick in when the gauge shows hot, try shorting a wire accross the connector block (just like in the old days!) and see if the fans run. If they work while shorted - then you can buy a thermoswitch.
I also see from the online shop that the auto has a more expensive radiator than the manual, this is normally because an automatic needs a radiator with a greater cooling capacity. So unless you're hammering your car the radiator may be quite capable of dissipating the engine heat without the requirement for forced air cooling.
For what it's worth, I've heard my fans about twice in the last 18 months even with the hot summer we had last year.
If they don't kick in when the gauge shows hot, try shorting a wire accross the connector block (just like in the old days!) and see if the fans run. If they work while shorted - then you can buy a thermoswitch.
I also see from the online shop that the auto has a more expensive radiator than the manual, this is normally because an automatic needs a radiator with a greater cooling capacity. So unless you're hammering your car the radiator may be quite capable of dissipating the engine heat without the requirement for forced air cooling.
For what it's worth, I've heard my fans about twice in the last 18 months even with the hot summer we had last year.
Thanks arry, I will try that tomorrow, and no, I don't ever hammer it, and I never will.. [^] Now if it was a v8 multivalve FI roadster of some sort on loan or test from my old firm. [8)] bbrrmmm [:D] [:o)] lol..
Reminds me, you see that TV prog about rebuilding an old combine harvestor recently? lol, the ole fellah helping them told them to paint the diesel engine red, change the oil and filter, and then leave it well alone? [?] they din look very happy about it, but did like he said.. [|)]
When they finaly assembled the thing, he told them to reinstall the engine just as it was, then he filled it with diesel fuel, connected up the battery, and it chugged happily back to life after 45 years of being buried in a hedge!! The ole chap just grinned and said "they are usually buggers to start" [:D] lmho..
Reminds me, you see that TV prog about rebuilding an old combine harvestor recently? lol, the ole fellah helping them told them to paint the diesel engine red, change the oil and filter, and then leave it well alone? [?] they din look very happy about it, but did like he said.. [|)]
When they finaly assembled the thing, he told them to reinstall the engine just as it was, then he filled it with diesel fuel, connected up the battery, and it chugged happily back to life after 45 years of being buried in a hedge!! The ole chap just grinned and said "they are usually buggers to start" [:D] lmho..
Its a lovely day here [^], so I took the car up to the top of a local hill, 400 feet ish, came back, and let the engine run, and run, and run, it never got above 80? prob nearer 75! rad was hot ish from top to bottom, hoses were all hot, heater worked %100.
Sooo, I pulled the plug off the 'thermoswitch' shorted across the plug and BOTH fans came to life! jeeezzzz scared the life out of me! [:0] those fans really shift some air between them! Shame they dont work all the time. I could prob turn the engine off and the fans would pull me along! [:D] Anyway, I put the plug back and went to get a new switch, I replaced the thermoswitch, drove back up the hill, parked up against a dry stone wall in the sun, and let the engine run for 1/2 hour, temp guage settled at about 90 ish and guess what? the fans still did nothing! [8)] lmho.. You were quite right. The coolant simply doesn't get hot enough to trigger the fans. [:I] [:o)]
But for the price of a thermoswitch and half hour messing under the bonnet, I have peace of mind, so it was well worth running the tests. [:)] Thanks again for the helpfull advice. [:)]
Sooo, I pulled the plug off the 'thermoswitch' shorted across the plug and BOTH fans came to life! jeeezzzz scared the life out of me! [:0] those fans really shift some air between them! Shame they dont work all the time. I could prob turn the engine off and the fans would pull me along! [:D] Anyway, I put the plug back and went to get a new switch, I replaced the thermoswitch, drove back up the hill, parked up against a dry stone wall in the sun, and let the engine run for 1/2 hour, temp guage settled at about 90 ish and guess what? the fans still did nothing! [8)] lmho.. You were quite right. The coolant simply doesn't get hot enough to trigger the fans. [:I] [:o)]
But for the price of a thermoswitch and half hour messing under the bonnet, I have peace of mind, so it was well worth running the tests. [:)] Thanks again for the helpfull advice. [:)]
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BonceChops
- Posts: 449
- Joined: 28 Sep 2003, 11:08
- Location: North West UK
- My Cars:
Hi Neil, >>You could try pluging the old switch onto the connector and warming the switch up with a cigerette lighter and see if it switches the fans on.<< I tried that as soon as I read your post. And the fans started up! both of them! lmho..
Hi Goose, (goose?). Now thats an interesting idea, some sort of overide switch? not instead of, but as well as a thermoswitch? Maybe I could buy a switch intended for air con and use that? It would look %100 acceptable as I have the "dummy" cut outs to take the switch on the right hand side of the dash next to the dimmer switch.. [^] Belt and braces, hmm I like it. [:D]
Uh ohh... dare I ask how to wire it up? [:I] lol. Nah, I wouldn't understand a word you told me I'm afraid, I read the thread about fitting LED's in the dash!!! and understood almost nothing [:I] [:o)]
Hi Goose, (goose?). Now thats an interesting idea, some sort of overide switch? not instead of, but as well as a thermoswitch? Maybe I could buy a switch intended for air con and use that? It would look %100 acceptable as I have the "dummy" cut outs to take the switch on the right hand side of the dash next to the dimmer switch.. [^] Belt and braces, hmm I like it. [:D]
Uh ohh... dare I ask how to wire it up? [:I] lol. Nah, I wouldn't understand a word you told me I'm afraid, I read the thread about fitting LED's in the dash!!! and understood almost nothing [:I] [:o)]
James
It's a doddle to wire up an extra switch.
1) get a switch that will fit in the fascia
2) find two contacts that switch on and off
3) wire one contact of the switch to the wire going to one of the two contacts on the thermo switch in your rad.
4) wire the other contact of the switch to the other wire going to the other contact on the thermo switch.
That's it.
If thermo switch cuts in, your fans come on.
If you flick the switch on, your fans come on.
With a tiny bit more effort, you may find a switch that lights up when it's on, that will probably just need a 12V supply to the light contacts.
cheers
Russell [:)][:)]
It's a doddle to wire up an extra switch.
1) get a switch that will fit in the fascia
2) find two contacts that switch on and off
3) wire one contact of the switch to the wire going to one of the two contacts on the thermo switch in your rad.
4) wire the other contact of the switch to the other wire going to the other contact on the thermo switch.
That's it.
If thermo switch cuts in, your fans come on.
If you flick the switch on, your fans come on.
With a tiny bit more effort, you may find a switch that lights up when it's on, that will probably just need a 12V supply to the light contacts.
cheers
Russell [:)][:)]
Thanks, sounds great.[:)] Even I understood it? [:I] lol.. I will get a switch that lights up when on. If I get stuck wiring it up I will be back yelling for help! lol. [:o)] wont be able to sort it till the weekend tho, but will let you know how it goes. [8)]
I bought a Cit dash switch when I had the front fogs added, but I let a garage fit them for me.. mistake.. bad mistake.. huge mistake... lamps they fitted cost about £35 each, ('blue widespread' as I requested) I supplied the dash switch, and the bill?? £150!! and they had my car for 9 days!! claimed they had a prob getting a suitable relay? grrrrr.. Never been back there since..
Fortunately the garage I bought the car from put me onto their bloke and he's brill. [:D]
I bought a Cit dash switch when I had the front fogs added, but I let a garage fit them for me.. mistake.. bad mistake.. huge mistake... lamps they fitted cost about £35 each, ('blue widespread' as I requested) I supplied the dash switch, and the bill?? £150!! and they had my car for 9 days!! claimed they had a prob getting a suitable relay? grrrrr.. Never been back there since..
Fortunately the garage I bought the car from put me onto their bloke and he's brill. [:D]
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uhn113x
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: 06 Jan 2004, 22:06
- Location: Near Leeds, United Kingdom
- My Cars: 1981 Dyane - on road all year round.
1982 GSA Pallas - on road April - September.
1997 ZX 1.9D Dimension. - x 1
Goose quoth: <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">ive just wired up my fans to a switch in the dash so when it gets to a certain temp i can turn them on and back down it goes!!
my own piece of mind and im in control not a switch that cud be broken!!
which mine is by the way<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
But, you still have a switch on your dash that 'cud' be broken!! While you are at it, I suppose you could, if it is a petrol one, convert it to manual ignition advance and choke - maybe throw away the central locking as well? [;)][;)]
Your switch in the radiator will not forget to turn the fan on when the temp rises.........You may
my own piece of mind and im in control not a switch that cud be broken!!
which mine is by the way<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
But, you still have a switch on your dash that 'cud' be broken!! While you are at it, I suppose you could, if it is a petrol one, convert it to manual ignition advance and choke - maybe throw away the central locking as well? [;)][;)]
Your switch in the radiator will not forget to turn the fan on when the temp rises.........You may
Hmm I had a chat with our local "main" Citroen dealer today, They know the exact shape and size switch I need, as they put the dummy switches in the ZX themselves!! Apparenty it was, as predicted, for air con. But they claim they dont have a switch for sale??? [:(!] duhh..
I'm not just going to fit any ole switch, so have decided on a diff course of action, I have added the thermoswitch-fan test to my fortnightly 'inspection' instead. And of course I have a spare thermoswitch now. [:I] lol..
Having read that most temp sensors on the ZX are sited in places that air locks are prone to form, I am very surprised that no one sells sensors that can be sited in other positions as a back-up preventative measure? It would make sense to put sensors in places that would retain hot water untill the last drop vapourises away. no?
Thanks again for all the info and ideas.. [:)]
I'm not just going to fit any ole switch, so have decided on a diff course of action, I have added the thermoswitch-fan test to my fortnightly 'inspection' instead. And of course I have a spare thermoswitch now. [:I] lol..
Having read that most temp sensors on the ZX are sited in places that air locks are prone to form, I am very surprised that no one sells sensors that can be sited in other positions as a back-up preventative measure? It would make sense to put sensors in places that would retain hot water untill the last drop vapourises away. no?
Thanks again for all the info and ideas.. [:)]