Just changed the antifreeze on my td xant what an absolute pig of a job!
My hands are cut to ribbons due to the aircon compressor and the bung was damn tight couldnt get in with anything, finally managed to undo it with blood running dowm my arm, any tips for next time?
I drained the radiator only and put 2 litres of antifreeze in topped up with water IS this enough for the british climate?[V]
XANTIA COOLANT CHANGE (OUCH)
Moderator: RichardW
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oilyspanner
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Water issue,
There is some debate about this, but, in order to give very sub-standard PSA items a chance, IMHO it's advisable to use deionised water. (Scale and ions - different things, so I understand.) It's around £3.50 for five litres from a factor, which is cheper than a radiator or a matrix.
rg
There is some debate about this, but, in order to give very sub-standard PSA items a chance, IMHO it's advisable to use deionised water. (Scale and ions - different things, so I understand.) It's around £3.50 for five litres from a factor, which is cheper than a radiator or a matrix.
rg
I didn't realise you could by water like that. At £3.50 it is worth the peace of mind. I have a number of questions on coolants & components:
1. Does anyone sell Mono Propylene Glycol Antifreeze? I'm keen to leak non toxic stuff on the drive.
2. No one has yet answered if the GSF rads are better construction than the PSA rads - I expect a radiator to last longer than 5-6 years. Or would it be better to get a rad rebuilt with a new core?
3. If the PSA rad and heater matrix is so bad has anyone looked around at other manufacturers items that may fit?
1. Does anyone sell Mono Propylene Glycol Antifreeze? I'm keen to leak non toxic stuff on the drive.
2. No one has yet answered if the GSF rads are better construction than the PSA rads - I expect a radiator to last longer than 5-6 years. Or would it be better to get a rad rebuilt with a new core?
3. If the PSA rad and heater matrix is so bad has anyone looked around at other manufacturers items that may fit?
I suspect that they are all from the same source.
This is a key topic for me as the 2.5 XM is famous for eating matrices/radiators every 40K. And nobody knows precisely why this particular PSA creation is so bad. So every little bit of anti-corrosion stuff helps.
Then, I turn up at my local indie and they are draining out what looks like brown/auburn hair dye solution from a ZX. He has probably run for 100K like that and never had a problem. 'snot fair.
rg
This is a key topic for me as the 2.5 XM is famous for eating matrices/radiators every 40K. And nobody knows precisely why this particular PSA creation is so bad. So every little bit of anti-corrosion stuff helps.
Then, I turn up at my local indie and they are draining out what looks like brown/auburn hair dye solution from a ZX. He has probably run for 100K like that and never had a problem. 'snot fair.
rg
I suspect that they are all from the same source.
This is a key topic for me as the 2.5 XM is famous for eating matrices/radiators every 40K. And nobody knows precisely why this particular PSA creation is so bad. So every little bit of anti-corrosion stuff helps.
Then, I turn up at my local indie and they are draining out what looks like brown/auburn hair dye solution from a ZX. He has probably run for 100K like that and never had a problem. 'snot fair.
rg
This is a key topic for me as the 2.5 XM is famous for eating matrices/radiators every 40K. And nobody knows precisely why this particular PSA creation is so bad. So every little bit of anti-corrosion stuff helps.
Then, I turn up at my local indie and they are draining out what looks like brown/auburn hair dye solution from a ZX. He has probably run for 100K like that and never had a problem. 'snot fair.
rg
Sorry - I think we're getting a bit mixed up here concerning hard vs. soft water !
Hard water causes problems when a very large amount of it passes through the same, heated, area.
For instance - a kettle with hard water, boiled just once, will create only a VERY small amount of scale.
Automotive heating/cooling systems are more like domestic heating systems (where the water stays put for years) than they are like domestic hot water systems - or kettles - (where the hot water is continually changing). Heating systems don't - or shouldn't - really have problems with furring/scale, whereas hot water systems definitely do.
Rain water is usually slightly acidic, hard water tends to be less so than soft - due to the (somewhat alkaline) nature of the rock which the water has passed through.
Soft water doesn't generally give major problems with scale or fur, but it can rot things - especially copper !
I think that a good many heating problems with Citroëns (and Renaults) are caused by the heater matrix being corroded - this can cause leaks, I've had this twice in my Laguna, for instance. It also creates copper - and probably other - salts (think School Chemistry here), which might well be the cause of the small tubes in the matrices becoming blocked, which sometimes happens, apparently.
So I'd be quite happy using hard water in my car's cooling system, although de-ionised (and even better, distilled) water would be preferable for sure.
But, whatever, steer well clear of soft water...
The tap water where I live is not that soft, but it's still acidic enough to have rotted 3 domestic hot water cylinders and, I suspect, to have done for 2 if not 3 Laguna heater matrices.
I've learnt my lesson, on the car front. From now on, I'm going to use de-ionised water and a pretty high concentration of antifreeze. This should work out a lot cheaper than getting a heater matrix changed...
Jim.
Hard water causes problems when a very large amount of it passes through the same, heated, area.
For instance - a kettle with hard water, boiled just once, will create only a VERY small amount of scale.
Automotive heating/cooling systems are more like domestic heating systems (where the water stays put for years) than they are like domestic hot water systems - or kettles - (where the hot water is continually changing). Heating systems don't - or shouldn't - really have problems with furring/scale, whereas hot water systems definitely do.
Rain water is usually slightly acidic, hard water tends to be less so than soft - due to the (somewhat alkaline) nature of the rock which the water has passed through.
Soft water doesn't generally give major problems with scale or fur, but it can rot things - especially copper !
I think that a good many heating problems with Citroëns (and Renaults) are caused by the heater matrix being corroded - this can cause leaks, I've had this twice in my Laguna, for instance. It also creates copper - and probably other - salts (think School Chemistry here), which might well be the cause of the small tubes in the matrices becoming blocked, which sometimes happens, apparently.
So I'd be quite happy using hard water in my car's cooling system, although de-ionised (and even better, distilled) water would be preferable for sure.
But, whatever, steer well clear of soft water...
The tap water where I live is not that soft, but it's still acidic enough to have rotted 3 domestic hot water cylinders and, I suspect, to have done for 2 if not 3 Laguna heater matrices.
I've learnt my lesson, on the car front. From now on, I'm going to use de-ionised water and a pretty high concentration of antifreeze. This should work out a lot cheaper than getting a heater matrix changed...
Jim.
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Jon
<i>"2. No one has yet answered if the GSF rads are better construction than the PSA rads - I expect a radiator to last longer than 5-6 years. Or would it be better to get a rad rebuilt with a new core?"</i>
In reply to that, well the construction is just the same as they are the same radiators., the GSF rad will be from either Ordonez or Valeo, who supply the same radiators to Citroen production line, and the aftermarket (Dealers). In some cases the GSF supplied rad may be Nissens, this (Danish) company has lots of O.E. fit on various Swedish & German vehicles, but not so much on French, but is recognised as a quality brand.
On a general note, the thin alloy construction of rads and matrixes in many Citroens leads them open to both internal and external corrosion, however careful you may be with your coolant mix. The situation is such that Valeo, the only manufacturer of the <b>XM </b>heater Matrix; and supplier to Citroen and Gsf for this part, issued a Technical Directive advising that they were unable to accept warranty claims on this part. They blamed "electrolysis". They also recommended earthing the matrix, and that the cooling system should be flushed with Forte cooling system flush, then the system refilled with genuine Citroen antigel and distilled water; or they would not entertain the warranty claim.
Enough said?? [:(]
I've been reading in some Classic car mags recently that people have been making their own very efficient and far less corrosion prone matrixes by the simple means of using microbore copper central heating piping coiled to the appropriate shape. Can't be too difficult, and may be an option for someone handy with the pipe bender and blowtorch?? [^]
In reply to that, well the construction is just the same as they are the same radiators., the GSF rad will be from either Ordonez or Valeo, who supply the same radiators to Citroen production line, and the aftermarket (Dealers). In some cases the GSF supplied rad may be Nissens, this (Danish) company has lots of O.E. fit on various Swedish & German vehicles, but not so much on French, but is recognised as a quality brand.
On a general note, the thin alloy construction of rads and matrixes in many Citroens leads them open to both internal and external corrosion, however careful you may be with your coolant mix. The situation is such that Valeo, the only manufacturer of the <b>XM </b>heater Matrix; and supplier to Citroen and Gsf for this part, issued a Technical Directive advising that they were unable to accept warranty claims on this part. They blamed "electrolysis". They also recommended earthing the matrix, and that the cooling system should be flushed with Forte cooling system flush, then the system refilled with genuine Citroen antigel and distilled water; or they would not entertain the warranty claim.
Enough said?? [:(]
I've been reading in some Classic car mags recently that people have been making their own very efficient and far less corrosion prone matrixes by the simple means of using microbore copper central heating piping coiled to the appropriate shape. Can't be too difficult, and may be an option for someone handy with the pipe bender and blowtorch?? [^]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jon</i>
....
.... They also recommended earthing the matrix, and ....
....
Enough said?? [:(]
....
....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
- which was exactly what I had in mind above [:(!]
....
.... They also recommended earthing the matrix, and ....
....
Enough said?? [:(]
....
....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
- which was exactly what I had in mind above [:(!]