C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

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triumphtoledo
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C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by triumphtoledo »

Had a small problem with my 2006 C5, in that it was surging on the motorway, when cruising at 60-70mph. No fault codes displayed. Also, occasionally, it would lose power and hiccup for a second, when accelerating gently between 1,200 and 2,000 rpm.

As the car has done just over 100,000 miles, I took the EGR valve off and found that the valve was sticking open and the mechanism was covered in soot. Otherwise, it was very clean and not clogged. Cleaning did not solve it and the valve action remained sticky, so bought a new Delphi one.

I performed an actuator test with Lexia before fitting and the new valve opened and closed. Fitted it to the car and performed the programming task and reset the fault code that resulted ("programming not complete") which did not come back.

Now, with the engine idling, you can hear the valve slam open and shut, plus and the engine stutters as it does so. Low speed acceleration is full of hesitation (worse than before), although 2,500rpm and/or hard acceleration sees the issue disappear and the car flies! When the engine is switched off, the old one would "cycle" open and closed 3-4 times, this one does about 12 cycles.

Disconnecting the EGR makes the engine run happy again at low speed, albeit bringing the engine management lamp on.

Other than blanking, what else can be done? I suspect it is a programming issue. Has my Chinese Lexia buggered it up?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

R
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Do you have your VIN handy? There was a known problem with the C5 MK II manufactured between October 2005 and January 2006 on the DW10BTED4 engine specifically. The issue concerned the Engine shuddering at between 1500 to 2500 RPM and / or engine spluttering / shutting down. The engine management light may come on.

The issue concerns the EGR solenoid valve and the Engine ECU software. This can lead to a blocking of the EGR valve, causing starting or mis-firing when driving.
  • If the engine ECU has a software version of 9662200080 or lower, then the EGR valve needs replacing and the engine ECU software needs an update.
  • If the software version is higher than 9662200080, the EGR valve does not need replacing, but the software update needs to be applied.
Obviously, disabling the emissions equipment on a car of which the EGR is part of is illegal for road use, so we can't condone that on the forum. But if your vehicle is one of those affected, then you may have solved half the problem with the EGR valve replacement - but may just need the engine ECU software updated. You won't be able to do this with your clone, so a trip to the dealer where they can download it for you may be the solution - again if your car is affected. But you can at least determine your Engine ECU software version with your clone to see if your car along with the age and engine type makes this a prime suspect.

The next thing I can suggest is a split in one of the air hoses especially the turbo piping. - it may be very hard to detect - I had this issue, and it got so bad with the stuttering and stalling - it started making a rasping noise and total lack of power and cutting out. Turned out it was a split but very hard even for the technician to locate. A new hose and problem solved, but another possibility for you to check. :-D
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by triumphtoledo »

Hello Marc,
Thank-you for responding so quickly.

The Vin is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]******** . It was registered in November '06 so may be beyond the 'bad batch'... can you confirm?

I am unsure if the split hose is the cause, as the engine appears to run fine with the EGR disconnected but I'd prefer not to be belching out blocks of cancer in everyone's faces as I go about my business ;)

Many thanks,

Rob
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 22 Aug 2018, 12:12, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: VIN Masked
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So with your VIN confirmed, your actual build date was September 27th 2006 (warranty start date 25th October 2006) and will be later than the issue concerned Rob, so back to the drawing board on this one.

Have you cleaned your MAF sensor (caution here - the sensor wire is extremely sensitive). This can also cause hesitation if the wire is dirty and therefore sending the wrong data to the engine ECU. If the flow rate of air getting into the engine is miscalculated, the engine ECU will over compensate to correct and this can lead to over / under fuelling. There is specialist MAF sensor cleaner - stick to that.

If this doesn't resolve it, I would suggest that you hook up Lexia and go for a spin to try and replicate the conditions whilst capturing some live data (but take a passenger to assist of course). That way if the surging and hesitation starts again you may have the data that can be used to see what is happening in the absence of any permanent fault codes.
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by triumphtoledo »

Thanks for checking Marc. While cleaning the MAF sensor is a good idea, the cause is definitely the EGR valve though, because the car runs well with it disconnected, plus it is acting strangely, by opening and closing violently at idle. Teh surging is happening between 1100 and 2,200rpm at light throttle loads - i.e. when the EGR is operating. Just wondering if this is a programming issue or a dicey new EGR?
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Can you confirm you've run a new global test and there are no fault codes? If it is also happening at idle, then some live data might provide a clue then Rob.

The EGR is only one component of course in the whole system and a bad MAF can be responsible for:
  • The engine hiccuping.
  • Hesitation or dragging under load or idle.
  • Hesitation & jerking during acceleration.
  • Stalling shortly after starting the engine.
  • Excessively rich or lean idling.
It's not uncommon for other components to mimick fuel system faults, so still worth checking.
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by triumphtoledo »

I have performed another global scan - no fault codes and loads of hiccuping, which disappear, when he EGR is disconnected.

I can only theorise that it's a faulty new EGR valve, unless there is a programming issue that occurred when the parameters were reset.

Any more ideas? ;)

R
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by MikeT »

Does your car have an EGR throttle as well (as the EGR valve)?
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by GiveMeABreak »

triumphtoledo wrote: 22 Aug 2018, 10:12
I performed an actuator test with Lexia before fitting and the new valve opened and closed. Fitted it to the car and performed the programming task and reset the fault code that resulted ("programming not complete") which did not come back.
Can you go through this part and what happened? "programming not complete" as that doesn't sound right to me.

Can you go through the steps / menu as to what you did?
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by moizeau »

Hello R, can you read through the thread on 407 surging please. Same engine. Ignore any thoughts within the thread linking the CC. Is this similar to mine in ANY way? How intermittent is the surging / dropping off? Mine has only played up once at idle and never completely stalled. It is worse at revs lower then 2000. What is your soot % in the particulate filter measurements? It seems better now, though It's not done many miles since!
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by EDC5 »

Is it possible to get a concrete definition or description on surging?

It sounds like the new EGR is being told to open at inappropriate times.
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by moizeau »

Very good question Elis. That is the difference between..'Have a listen to this mate'..and one one would see the surge , and the other would see it as trying to stall then picking up again? Everyone's description is different. Be interesting to see the data. EGR can be used to regen. It will be interesting to see the response
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Fixed

Post by triumphtoledo »

Well it's fixed - the replacement EGR was faulty. It was a Delphi-branded one but did not have as many markings as the one that came off. A fake perhaps? Another Delphi one fitted, which programmed OK - started the engine - it idled OK for a few minutes. Depressed the throttle and management light came on. Lexia plugged in - code involving the pedal was reset. Car taken on a 30 miles-long test-drive - all OK. Much smoother acceleration between 1100 and 2000 rpm at light throttle with no more hesitation/surging. Plus the heavy smoking appears to have gone. Ran a Global test afterwards, no faults.

What was happening before was that the car would hesitate slightly at low speeds; sometimes losing power momentarily for maybe 1/2 a second. At motorway speeds at around 2,000-2,700rpm, on cruise control, the engine would 'surge', so appear to pull hard, then back off, pull, back off, etc continually.

The old EGR was sticking open slightly, so the engine was receiving less oxygen than intended.

Anyway thanks for all your suggestions and I hope this feedback helps others.

R
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Great, so this is not the first time people have thought they have bought a genuine part and it turned out to be a cheap copy - sometimes if the price is too cheap it probably is too good to be true.

Really pleased you stuck with it and got it sorted :-D , this will be very helpful t others in future and a warning to be careful of parts that may not be genuine. I can't see a genuine original OEM part failing like that - they are usually properly tested beforehand. Well done.
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Re: C5 2.0 HDI RHR EGR programming query

Post by moizeau »

Was the original problem continuous or every 300 miles? What was your soot content?
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