C3 '54 central locking problem

[tontonjon]

Little update; original stereo back in (CD release broken, which is why I changed it) and worked - but now it doesn't and the on/off button activates the windscreen wipers. Side lights are also now permanently on with ignition...

Just about to do ANOTHER BSI reset, but I've had enough. I'm going to look for a scrappage deal.

[GiveMeABreak]

Forgive me Jonathan - but I just cracked up when I read that!

If you had issues with the main lights and dipped beam going on and off on their own and the indicators playing up, I would of suggested the COMMS unit (the control module under the steering wheel) as that would of been symptomatic of that playing up. Remembering that this unit also serves to send the data from the door key high frequency transmitter to the BSI for the locking - I would of been leaning towards the Comms unit.

However, with the other issues now with the radio - it is not happy about something with the data over the network.

When you replaced the RD4 head unit back into the car, sometimes you need to wait for the car to sleep and then wake up (so doing a BSI reset would be good as you've said) to allow it to settle back in. But can you confirm that you did not change the quadlock or other wiring harness when you put the aftermarket stereo in?

These sometimes change the wiring for the aftermarket units to function with the car's controls. I'm thinking if that was replaced, then the car will be throwing an additional wobbly if it doesn't have the proper rear harness.

Just a thought....

[tontonjon]

No, I only joined the supplied power harness into the correct wires on the old harness. Nothing else was changed at all. The power harness didn't have the stalk controls, just +ve red, +ve yellow, earth and a blue wire for the aerial (unused). Red to yellow, yellow to red, as instructed (is this called the 4 and 7 cross-over?)

BUT the car won't start at all now; no lights (apart from sides permanently on), no wipers. Putting the stereo in has done something funny to the car's brain. I joined all the wires back to the same colour - there are two spare, one is a pinky-red colour and the other is red and seems to be another (?) ignition power cable as opposed to the permanently on power that I have connected. I'm worried that something wsan't connected correctly when I switched the car back on. The BSI reset failed; no fuses blown, though. The battery is currently unplugged to give it a rest and I'll try again later.

I've got AA home start. Do they do diagnostics or would they just shake their heads and tow it to a garage?

Does anyone want a C3 project car?

[GiveMeABreak]

I can probably get you the pin outs for the RD4 if you want these Jonanthan....

As for the AA - they may attempt a diagnostic with a scan, but there won't be much they can do unless there is something blindingly obvious. I'll take a look and post up RD4 wiring for you shortly.

[tontonjon]

OK thanks. I think I've got it right, though.

Car now goes straight into Eco Mode after resetting the BSI.

The AA might be able to confirm it's duff! How much for scrap?

[GiveMeABreak]

Not much help here I'm afraid Jonathan - it's actually an RD3 unit you have not an RD4 which came out on the MK II.

On the diagram, 8410 is the Head Unit. Ignore the lower connection to the CD - you don't have that option. But the the top connections don't show a lot, just the speaker connections and the main connection are the wires 9005E (VAN Data Bus B) and 9004E (VAN Data Bus), with the BECE2 being the power and XE15D a mystery.

The multifunction screen actually is in charge of most of the info including turning the radio on and off apparently.

This is the only diagram I have

[GiveMeABreak]

OK thanks. I think I've got it right, though.

Car now goes straight into Eco Mode after resetting the BSI.

The AA might be able to confirm it's duff! How much for scrap?

I know this might sound daft - but I would give the battery a full charge. Worst things have happened with a duff or low charged battery.

[tontonjon]

I have already charged the battery, up to the top (the charger has a "full - maintaining" setting that I waited for). It was the first thing I did. The second was to try to reset the BSI... and so on.

Don't worry about the circuit diagram; I don't think that the stereo is the issue. Removing it completely doesn't improve matters and everything I do seems to make things worse, not better. Before we had a car we could use... now we don't. That's after I read that putting the original stereo back into the car was the best thing to start with. Should have known better!

I think we'll be doing a tour of the local car dealers tomorrow to check out what they have in stock...

[tontonjon]

I wasn't very inspired with the cars we saw this morning. So, rewind...

If you were going to solve the problems with my car, what would you do? If you mention "Lexia" please suggest someone who can help me!

One last attempt to save an otherwise OK car from the scrap man?

[GiveMeABreak]

The answer has to be a full diagnostic Jonanthan - it is simply not feasible to replace parts willy nilly.

At this stage, if you have checked the wiring, checked the battery is in a good healthy state and looked at all the obvious things, you really do need to get it on a Lexia. This should at least point to some of the issues and suspect areas. I think we can safely rule out a fuse and a relay, given the behaviour of controls that are affecting systems they should not. This smacks of a multiplexing issue to me - either a problem with the VAN (Vehicle Area Network) wiring, where the signnals are getting confused, or the BSI is sending the wrong data signals. But I have to say without the diagnostic there is no certain way to know.

If this is going to be a problem given the amount of computer issues and behaviour you are having, it may well be worth a visit to your Citroen dealer to get it properly diagnosed. At worst, they may tell you you need a new BSI (or ANC control box in your case), comms unit or a fuse box.

Although some of these parts are available elsewhere cheaper, here are the dealer prices for reference purposes. A BSI (ANC Control box) cannot simply be replaced though - it has to be matched to the engine ECU and the transponder immobiliser system in the keys. So a second hand one would mean replacing these other components too.

Description	Part No	Price Inc. VAT
ANC Control Box (BSI)	6580R8	£446.38
Engine Fuse Box	6500Y3	£252.79
Control Module Under Steering Wheel (Comms Unit)	6239TW	£327.59

Best thing I can suggest is get a proper diagnostic from a member that lives near you or get one done at the dealer. Whatever you decide, it isn't going to get sorted without this. At least you will have a better understanding of the repair cost of you get the dealer to look at it. It may cost you £50-£90 for the time - but ring up first.

Here is the member list who have Lexia kit willing to help out. At the bottom is a map showing locations. Bear in mind not all members are active all the time.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=56452

MikeT is in Christchurch / Dorset area by the looks of things and is active on the Forum - send him a PM.

Here is his Profile: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6590

[tontonjon]

But I still have to get it started! I wish I'd left the stereo alone, as at least I'd have been able to drive it to the garage.

Live and learn.

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, It sounds like the BSI has gone into a backup mode. Can you remove the car stereo and try starting it then?

[tontonjon]

Done that. Still doesn't start. It's in Eco mode.

[GiveMeABreak]

Economy mode won't stop the car from starting - that won't interfere with it - the same goes for the central locking. I think your BSI has thrown a big one. It's doubtful the radio has anything to do with this unless the aftermarket one caused a few issues when it was connected up.

Have a look here - these are similar symptoms to yours Jonanthan, they claim to be able to repair the BSI units including that locking issue you initially described: this could be a much cheaper solution, so maybe worth giving them a ring. That way you could send the BSI off. You may need to get your confidential code found on the owner confidential card, or which Citroen will give you on receipt of proof of ownership for a small fee. You may need it to be programmed afterwards - but they should be able to tell you.

http://www.rollingmotion.co.uk/psa_bsi_46.html

[tontonjon]

Marc,

After a long hard think we've decided to part company with the C3; certainly it would be best not to and to solve the BSI issue, but I haven't the time.

We're probably going to arrange for it to be scrapped, but if someone is interested in saving it, send me a PM.

Thanks for all the support; it will be useful, no doubt, for those who encounter the same issues in the future - and for anyone considering obtaining a C3 which doesn't open!

Best wishes,

Jonathan