Will not start

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russbif
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Will not start

Post by russbif »

Hello folks, my 2009 Citroen c3 picasso doesn't get used much, so the other week I charged the battery up and went for a good run, 2 hours up the motorway and back, then did the same a week later. No problems. This morning it would not crank over, slapped the charger on and after 2 hours the battery was fully charged and started first time.
Took the terminals off and there was only a little bit of corrosion, nothing heavy, cleaned them up greased them, reconnected and everything fine. its almost as if there is a drain somewhere, checked all the lights including cubby box and everything goes off, all doors fully shut etc, any ideas?
Its a December 2009 1.6 Hdi exclusive, had it from new...
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Re: Will not start

Post by Zelandeth »

If it's still on the original battery, it may just be failing due to old age. It seems these days that ten years is really the most you can hope for out of a battery. I've had them fail on the 107 and the Saab at nine and seven years as I recall, and I think the one in my Xantia was around the ten year mark too when it gave out. I honestly don't know why this seems to be the norm now, whereas I've had plenty of cars over the years that despite being over twenty years old were still on their original battery and doing just fine.

The failure mode I've seen most commonly is that while fully charged they will still provide plenty of grunt to start the engine it's the overall capacity that seems to drop off. For instance the one in my previous Xantia was absolutely fine day-to-day - but if I accidentally left the headlights on for fifteen minutes, it would barely light the warning lights on the dash. The 107 was absolutely fine if used regularly, but ended up in a state where it could be left alone for precisely six days - anything over that and it would be totally dead when I came to use it and would require a jump start.

It would be worth getting the battery and alternator tested. Our local Halfords has a fancy little computerised gizmo which when connected to the battery both with the vehicle running and not does some quite in-depth analysis and should be able to provide quite a detailed report on the overall health of the battery and charging circuit. They should be willing to provide this test for free, with no obligation to buy a replacement battery from them - which I'd definitely advise against as the prices they're asking for batteries are beyond a joke.
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Re: Will not start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

10 years! That really is maxing it out - for a 'modern vehicle' with all the associated electronics. It is normal to have a small battery drain given all the systems that remain active to detect opening and closing, the alarm, the electrovalves closing and the like. If you've checked the obvious and performed a battery drain check, then I really think it's time to invest in a new battery. I replace mine every 5-6 years tops.
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russbif
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Re: Will not start

Post by russbif »

There is nothing wrong with the battery, Have checked it with my fluke meter, (and checked the SG too) and the alternator is charging fine as well, what I was hoping for was some guidance as to some unknown battery drain that may have eluded me.
Batteries last a lot longer than 6 years if properly cared for, my 1992 Miata is still on its original factory fitted gel battery.
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Re: Will not start

Post by white exec »

With everything switched off, check the current leaving the battery (meter inserted between a battery terminal and its removed lead ... sorry to state the obvious) - should be 50mA or less (after everything has initialised), and ideally not more than 30-ish mA.

Agree with coments above about expected battery life; anything more than five years on a diesel is a bonus. Have had several go downhill just as you describe on a couple of diesel cars. New battery instantly sorted the issue in every case - and I'll do all the checks first, like yourself.

Also check out the battery connectors, not just as you have for contact cleanliness where they clamp on to the battery posts, but for internal oxidation too, if they are the original lead (Pb) lump crimped-on type. These can relax their grip on the cable strands over time, and allow the strands to blacken/oxidise. Clue is whether either clamp gets at all warm after a bit of cranking. If so, replace with new brass clamps, and cleaned-up/trimmed back strands.

Would personally recommend Yuasa as a replacement battery.
Chris
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Re: Will not start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Exactly, and why I assumed you had undertaken the drain tests first, making it a likely possibility that the battery has maxed out its duty cycle. It may be showing as charging, but it may not be able to hold a charge at its original capacity any longer.

This shows the fuses check later on in the video.
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Re: Will not start

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Batteries can be like the rear tyres on a Xantia. They might still look good, but they have exceeded their 'Use By' date!
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Re: Will not start

Post by wheeler »

Yes anything more than 5 years out of a normal flooded battery is a bonus (3 to 4 years if its an AGM or EFB).
How did you test battery condition with your fluke out of curiosity ?
Remember when doing an amps drain check it may take anything up to 5 minutes for everything to power down & give you a proper reading. You may also need to trick the bonnet into thinking its closed if it has a bonnet open sensor. Not sure where the bonnet switch is on the C3 Picasso, some of them are in the catch.

+1 on the Yuasa recommendation
russbif
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Re: Will not start

Post by russbif »

I didn’t use the fluke for the battery drain check, I have a multimeter for that.
I bought a new battery, my old one was down to 45% on the battery tester, so will be fitting that this morning, however, I found the cause of the battery discharging whilst not in use, my webcam was causing a drain, it fell off the screen the other day in the hot weather, this may have caused an internal fault.
Thanks for all the advice. I shall buy another trickle charger as like use on my Mazda, it is deep discharge that kills batteries.
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Re: Will not start

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

On my C5 Mk1 the power socket near the handbrake is permanently powered (even when the system goes into economy mode), so I unplug the dash cam when I am leaving the car. On occasions when I have not (and have not used the car for several days) it takes slightly longer to start her up.
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Re: Will not start

Post by white exec »

On some vehicles it is possible to select whether lighter/aux sockets remain powered up or not, when IGN is switched off. Maybe programmable, or may be a choice of fuse position.
Chris
russbif
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Re: Will not start

Post by russbif »

I agree with you re the aux power socket, the one to the rear of the centre console was the one I used, soley because it was always on. The dashcam has an impact sensor so that if someone bumps me when the car is unattende it starts recording, I think this feature had become permanently on after it fell onto the dash, hence the battery drain.
New battery is fitted and all working normally, I shall try the dashcam again tomorrow and see if I still get a draw, I suspect I will, in which case I will only plug in the dashcam when driving.
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