Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

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Timmo
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Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Timmo » 05 Jun 2018, 11:01

Morning all,
At long last I've decided to get around tl recording the ol'girl starting from cold, has been behaving this was since Septemberish time i suppose, never normally worry about it as it clears through as hopefully the video will show,
Am i correct on thinking that the cold start side has gone a little wonky?? Drive absolutely fine when cleared through, you can help it along by gently pressing the throttle over the 1k rpm mark,
Last edited by myglaren on 05 Jun 2018, 17:19, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: YouTube link

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white exec
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by white exec » 05 Jun 2018, 11:49

I've seen a worse start! After a rough start, it seems to settle down to a better tickover after it's warmed up a little.
If it is cranking over enthusiastically enough, the main battery connections must be ok. If slow to crank, check state of battery, and the connections at it; if they get warm during cranking, replace them with new.

If battery and cranking ok, points to glow-plugs not working properly.
Check the connections at the glow-plug relay for signs of corrosion or over-heating (swollen insulation).
Relay is easily opened up, and the internal HD contacts cleaned.

One or more glow-plugs may have failed. It only takes one of the four to go down to result in a chuggy/smoky start.
Replace with Beru brand, which seems to be the most reliable and long-lived.

Glow-plugs can be taken out and bench tested. With a 12v battery supply, the tip should glow orange-hot within a few seconds. Do not do a prolonged test; disconnect after no more than 10secs.

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Timmo
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Timmo » 05 Jun 2018, 14:42

Sorry, posted this and got deep into frame bearings on a full suss mtb.
Yes it settles down and idles perfectly within a minute of cold start, drives perfectly too, starting is not an issue, glow light out, count to 3ish turn over and fires almost instantly,
Where would i vind the location of the glowplug relay?

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white exec
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by white exec » 05 Jun 2018, 17:38

If firing instantly, but lumpily 'till warm, that suggests a glow-plug not working.
Glow light extinguishing is just a timer function, sensed by ambient (actually coolant) temperature.
GPs should do a pre-heat, followed by a post-heat (the latter between some seconds and up to about three minutes in really cold conditions, to minimise smoke after a start; if a GP isn't providing heating, then the cylinder/injection area will need to warm up on its own, hence the smoke/unburnt fuel).

Someone who knows Xantias well will point up the GP relay. It's usually in front of the battery, black box, about 7x5cm.

Stewart(oily)
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Stewart(oily) » 05 Jun 2018, 21:45

I think you have a glow plug or two out.

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Timmo
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Timmo » 05 Jun 2018, 22:07

I think i know the relay box, is a tight fit with the big battery on it!
Glow plugs, Beru the ones to go for then? Any hints and tips for r them? Off to france next week (ine her new car this time) so will be a job for when we get back,

Stewart(oily)
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Stewart(oily) » 05 Jun 2018, 22:21

Quarter inch drive deep sockets, assorted extensions, one of those magnets on a stick, flexible ratchet ring spanners, two of them are quite easy, the other two can be interesting.

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Timmo
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Timmo » 05 Jun 2018, 22:25

Hmmmn, ive many ratchet spanners but none flexi ended, and like wise, loads of sockets 1 deep one! (11mm for the driveshaft bearing bolts,)
Tool shoppong will be needed! Love a bit of tool shopping! :-D

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 05 Jun 2018, 22:41

It is possible (once you have removed them) to test the glow plugs. You need to make certain nothing is flammable nearby (working glow plugs get VERY hot VERY quickly!). You also need to give a working glow plug plenty of time to cool back down before handling it.

Secure a glow plug in a vice (so it cannot move). Touch a -12V lead to the body of the glow plug, and +12V to the power connector on the glow plug (you will also need plenty of amps). A working glow plug will glow white hot at the TIP. A faulty glow plug will either not glow, or will glow further down the element.

Kerek85
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Kerek85 » 06 Jun 2018, 09:39

Is it 1.9td or 2.0hdi?

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Timmo
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Timmo » 06 Jun 2018, 10:32

1.9td, am not posh enough for a hdi! ;-)

Stewart(oily)
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Stewart(oily) » 06 Jun 2018, 11:21

I test glowplugs by holding the body in a jump lead and touching the terminal post onto the other battery terminal, easy ! though they will be too hot to juggle with :wink: dont forget to put some copper grease on the threads when fitting the new ones.

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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by RichardW » 06 Jun 2018, 12:08

If this is the one in sig with over 170k miles, I'd be tempted to whip the rocker cover off and check the valve clearances before diving into the pain that is replacing the glowplugs. The exhausts close up at higher miles, and just hold the valves open when the engine is cold, leading to enough loss of compression to cause starting issues.

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white exec
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by white exec » 06 Jun 2018, 12:18

For testing the GPs individually after removal, don't worry about polarity (+ and -) on the glowplugs ... it doesn't matter.
They usually consume about 11amp each, iirc.
GP relay.JPG
GP relay is #1 in the diagram.
Disconnect the battery before removing it.

Useful info on glowplugs here...
http://beru.federalmogul.com/sites/defa ... 014_fm.pdf

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Timmo
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Re: Cold start chug chuggery Xantia td

Post by Timmo » 06 Jun 2018, 12:53

Have 4beru ones ordered, ive never done them on the car, and it had a relatively good mot last time so deserves a treat! ;-)
Yes tis the one in the sig, 176k,smooth engine, shot bodywork! :-D