1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

leftfootleashed
Posts: 23
Joined: 20 May 2018, 19:07

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by leftfootleashed » 23 May 2018, 16:01

Sorry, I should have read properly (twice!). Interesting - never come across that before but will definitely give it a go.

Bick
Posts: 440
Joined: 19 Feb 2006, 18:35

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Bick » 23 May 2018, 22:46

You should get 4.2L of oil in a Berlingo 1.6hdi the capacity Citroen state seems to be wrong on every one ive done

leftfootleashed
Posts: 23
Joined: 20 May 2018, 19:07

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by leftfootleashed » 13 Jun 2018, 16:19

A bit of an update on this in case anyone's interested...

I took the turbo core out to replace it, and as I was doing it, thought I'd better check the EGR system before I put a new core in. Took the valve off - a bit of carbon, but not really clogged up:

Image

Then I took the pipe off where it goes into the intake manifold. I think this picture speaks for itself:

Image

I'd traced the oil up the intake stream before, but stopped short of the intake manifold since it requires so much fiddly dismantling (fuel lines, injector wiring harness, etc.) but clearly I was going to have to do it. This was what I found underneath:

Image

Image

I didn't take any photos of the intake manifold itself, but this is what I recovered from the inside of it after hours of scraping and prodding with various implements. To give you an idea of scale, that's a standard size disposable glove box, about 8x4", over half full. And that's just what didn't end up on the floor of my garage, or in one of the several changes of caustic soda I soaked it in.

Image

After cleaning out the manifold itself, I tackled the inlet ports in the head, with much apprehension about stuff dropping into the cylinders. I tried to scrape out as much as I could, using various different tubes gaffer taped to the end of the hoover to minimise droppage, and with an improvised muslin filter in the hoover hose to stop all the crap clogging up the filters (this made it overheat quite quickly so it was a slow task with lots of clearing out the filter and waiting for it to cool down). When I'd got as much out as I could, I made an attachment to get right down into the port with the hoover and get as much out as possible.

It felt very wrong both letting oily cokey crap fall into the cylinder, and poking a hoover down there (some people hoover the inside of their cars, I hoover inside the engine!). I went back and forth between "even a tiny bit of contamination in there could really make a mess of things, this is going to be disastrous" and "it's fine, it'll probably just get burnt and/or ejected out of the exhaust ports (possibly to wreck my DPF. More)."

Image

Image

Anyway, I put everything back together (putting the old turbo core back in, since I want to do a couple of short interval oil changes to clean things out after loosening all the nasty stuff) and started it up. There was much chugging - not sure if this was caused by crap blocking the valves, or air in the fuel lines (I tried using what I assume is a priming bulb on on top of the engine, to little obvious effect). At one point, I decided to try and move the engine to a different position to see if that would affect things, so I put it in gear, rolled it forward a few inches and tried again. No idea if that worked, but it eventually started.

So now I'm back on the road. As I mentioned, I'm going to do an oil change very shortly, and another in maybe 1000 miles or so. I think I'll also disable the EGR by unplugging the valve (and possibly blanking it and mapping it out eventually).

The turbo has started whining a bit (never noticed it before). Not sure if it's to do with my rebuild-but-not-rebuild, or if I've just not got all the pipework back together properly, or is that normal for these engines, and it's just never been spooling properly till now, due to back pressure from the clogged intake?

Should I use an engine flush when changing the oil - do those do anything?

And should I use an EGR cleaning spray to try and clean things out a bit more?

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 8259
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 13 Jun 2018, 16:24

That is looking like quite a comprehensive amount of work. I would not disconnect the EGR, as (with the changes in the MoT) it may not then be road legal.

User avatar
Michel
Posts: 1197
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Michel » 13 Jun 2018, 17:21

I could probably do to do that on my 120,000 mile 1.6HDi Grand Picasso, but I see no way at all of removing the inlet manifold without first dismantling the rest of the car.

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 2815
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by white exec » 13 Jun 2018, 17:37

leftfootleashed wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 16:19
A bit of an update on this in case anyone's interested...

Image
That is t h e most appalling clogging up of an intake pipework I've ever seen, and a real indictment of what ought to be essentially clear and clean (but maybe lightly oiled).

Words almost fail. And all that (by design!) to stop the engine using too much oxygen, by feeding with it its own oxygen-depleted exhaust. Among some other anti-pollution measures, of course, but look what has finally been done to the ICE in its final years!

Well done you in cleaning it all out, something that should never have been necessary. Some of the things you've said, looking to the future, can't be commented on here, but I guess you're on the right track.

Oh, dear. 8-[

User avatar
Michel
Posts: 1197
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Michel » 13 Jun 2018, 17:45

white exec wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 17:37

That is t h e most appalling clogging up of an intake pipework I've ever seen, and a real indictment of what ought to be essentially clear and clean (but maybe lightly oiled)


Not uncommon at all Chris - I've seen the 2.0 BMW M47 Turbo diesel inlet manifolds as clogged as this on more than one occasion, just like that, and with clean EGR valves.

Online
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 8310
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by RichardW » 13 Jun 2018, 18:17

It's not as difficult as it first seems to remove the wipers and scuttle panel on a C4 Pic, which vastly improves the access to the top of the engine. Although getting the bolt started on the EGR clip when refitting it, is, er, quite trying! Apparently the air intake tube can be removed as well, which makes access better.

leftfootleashed
Posts: 23
Joined: 20 May 2018, 19:07

Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by leftfootleashed » 13 Jun 2018, 19:52

I would not disconnect the EGR, as (with the changes in the MoT) it may not then be road legal.
The advantage of disconnecting is that it can always be reconnected :wink: Mind you, I don't think an blanked EGR could be found by an MOT tester within the limits of the test, and is unlikely to be noticed (unless it threw a warning light, which is now a fail). Being pedantic, I'm not sure something that would fail an MOT necessarily makes it unroadworthy, but it's a grey area.
Well done you in cleaning it all out, something that should never have been necessary. Some of the things you've said, looking to the future, can't be commented on here, but I guess you're on the right track.
Thanks. Yes it's a terrible design. Quite - only time will tell whether I've brought it back from the brink, or prolonged the agony.

On the plus side, I feel like I know this engine like the back of my hand now, and I don't regret putting the time into it.