C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by lkraav » 10 Jun 2018, 16:27

bobins wrote:
10 Jun 2018, 16:14
When Marc complained to Citroen UK about the failure of his second rack, this was their response :


I'm fairly certain the only way to get something useful going is for oversight agencies to be involving forcing the manufacturers hand.

But I've yet to drive a recall action of any kind, so getting a short consultation from someone with past experience (lawyer, other brand activists) would probably be useful here.
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by Stickyfinger » 10 Jun 2018, 16:29

We might as well have fun then ...I am a pain in the ass as many know, so I am in :)
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by lkraav » 10 Jun 2018, 17:03

Stickyfinger wrote:
10 Jun 2018, 16:29
We might as well have fun then ...I am a pain in the ass as many know, so I am in :)


I've just filed an information request to European Consumer advisement center.

Main questions:

* what kind of a citizen union is needed to drive oversight agencies to action?
* what kind of a collection of proof is required to drive that action?
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by Stickyfinger » 10 Jun 2018, 17:16

I bet it will be more complaints needed than Citroen sold in Cars :)
Class action : Uk
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters. ... rue&bhcp=1
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by lkraav » 10 Jun 2018, 17:46

Btw check this Spacetourer, Jumpy IV recall

https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumer ... 12/0820/17

Risk type: Injuries
The pinion of the steering valve on the steering rack has been incorrectly fixed. This may lead to a loss of steering control.
Measures taken by economic operators: Recall of the product from end users (By: Manufacturer)

====

Thoughts? Possibly to extend / apply to C5?
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by bobins » 10 Jun 2018, 18:08

I'd think the Spacetourer / Jumpy recall would relate to the possibility of the pinion shaft actually coming loose, whereas the C5 X7 fault is due to the shaft rusting and taking out a seal and dumping the fluid onto the road. There's no actual loss of control as such with the C5 issue, but you would lose steering effectiveness (i.e. you'd need a damned site more effort to steer it) and you'd lose all your hydraulic fluid in Hydractive models which would severely affect handling and could lead to premature hydraulic pump failure due to the pump running with little or no fluid in it.
I would have thought that the potential to affect handling, the dumping of fluid onto the road, the fact that the issue can't easily be spotted by the average motorist nor during normal servicing, and the fact that it can go from a leak to loss of all fluid over the space of a few days would altogether constitute grounds for a recall..... but then that assumes the DVSA and/or Citroen are as interested in vehicle safety as we are...... :roll:
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 Jun 2018, 18:09

Ok, here's the thing - that probably related to an incorrect mounting / fixing, so a mechanical defect or misalignment issue potentially? So that has the potential to cause loss of steering and hence the safety recall.

The C5 rack is mechanically fine, but the quality of the steel used in manufacture is certainly of poor grade and quality. The issue with this is that it leads to corrosion and ultimately deformation of the seal / inability to make a seal. That will very likely be put down to a wear and tear / ageing issue I suspect. It probably won't lead to sudden and unexpected loss of steering and certainly in the case of hydraulically sprung C5s, would result in a warning for low LDS level before it actually ran out of oil. So plenty of time to top it up and get it to the garage I think.

I guess mine was leaking for some time before I noticed it, as I have had steering track related LDS leaks twice now of course, plus with the rear pipe and the front strut going too - so my gravel has been bathing in LDS lately :roll: .

So unless it is going to be a catastrophic failure or life in imminent danger, I really don't think they will give a fig about it.

I mean, in a few years here on the Forum, we'll all be saying to each other "How many engines are you on so far?... Oh, just the second, I'm on my third one now..."
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by Stickyfinger » 10 Jun 2018, 18:18

Umm.

The seal could go during a manoeuvre, that would be a sudden loss of steering capacity. During a manoeuvre at speed that would constitute a dangerous failure due to the sudden load on the driver/wheel force. ...or am I being too hopeful./
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 Jun 2018, 18:44

As the seal is pushing up under pressure from the inside I think it would likely only be a gradual leak - depending on how long it has been before being noticed. At any rate, with these, the power assistance falls with engine speed and speed of turning of wheel. So pressure is between 115 to 5 bar, with the most pressure between lower speeds to standstill. So very little assistance at fast speeds.
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by bobins » 10 Jun 2018, 18:49

GiveMeABreak wrote:
10 Jun 2018, 18:09

I mean, in a few years here on the Forum, we'll all be saying to each other "How many engines are you on so far?... Oh, just the second, I'm on my third one now..."



Maybe we should get some stickers produced that we can display in our windscreens that'll show how many racks we've gone through. First one to ten stickers gets a long service medal. :lol: Should only take a few more years at this rate. :wink:
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by Stickyfinger » 10 Jun 2018, 19:00

Can I order three please. This failure (@115k) is the second, first was @ 44k whilst still owned by Citroen :)
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by bobins » 10 Jun 2018, 19:32

Stickyfinger wrote:
10 Jun 2018, 19:00
Can I order three please. This failure (@115k) is the second, first was @ 44k whilst still owned by Citroen :)



I like your sig, Sticky, I think it's catching :-D
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by Stickyfinger » 10 Jun 2018, 19:49

:)
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by lkraav » 10 Jun 2018, 19:53

You guys should probably link the signature info back to this thread as well.
I will also add my blown THP turbo and timing chains work.
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by bobins » 10 Jun 2018, 20:08

lkraav wrote:
10 Jun 2018, 19:53
You guys should probably link the signature info back to this thread as well.
I will also add my blown THP turbo and timing chains work.



Apologies if you've covered this before, but do you know what condition your steering rack is in ? I ask purely to see if there was a production year that they were modified with better components and so don't fail. It is possible to just about see the condition of the pinion shaft by shining a torch through the wheel on driver's side wheel arch and hunting around to find it, but you get a much clearer view by inspecting it via the driver's footwell - about a half hour job (including cup of tea) and needing only a 10mm socket and a 13mm socket or ratchet spanner.
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