Recalls.

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Recalls.

Post by qprdude » 01 May 2018, 12:01

Citroen DS5 Vin number ***********************

"In a very limited number of vehicles it is necessary to check the presence of specific spot welds on the body shell. Should it be identified that one of the welds has been missed in production, the vehicle cannot be repaired. In the long term, and in very rare cases , body noises and squeaking could appear"

Firstly, if there is no fix, is there a point in recalling the car just to look at it?

Secondly, the recall wording. "Body noises" are heard in my car all the time.
Squeaking is also heard when the boss is with me.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 01 May 2018, 13:22

Very interesting Rick - if your car is in the range and has a a spot weld missing - then guess what - you get a replacement car!! :-D

BUT, sadly, I think your VIN is just a little outside the range :cry:
Recalls: Citroen DS5
2012 Citroen DS5: spot welds may not hold
In March 2013, a recall was issued for Citroen DS5 vehicles that were manufactured from 6 November 2012 to 14 November 2012. On a limited number of vehicles, one of the spot welds may have been omitted in production. Over time and in rare cases, the driver may notice unusual and squeaking noises as a result of this defect. For the recalled vehicles, the bodies were to be inspected and, if a spot weld had been omitted, the vehicle would be replaced. The recalled Citroen DS5 vehicles had VINs in the range VF7******CS524889 to VF7******CS525904 (R/2013/030).
I suspect they need to verify whether the weld is actually there or not - considering that if it isn't they are going to have to cough up for a new car!
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Re: Recalls.

Post by qprdude » 01 May 2018, 14:32

Oh bugger. I read the recall as there was no fix so live with it. Looks like I'm just under a couple of thousand cars young to benefit from a freebie.(1602, to be precise). I suspect they would fight tooth and nail to avoid giving out replacement cars. Pity they don't say where the spot weld is. If its on the shell to the chassis it won't be an easy task even though they know exactly which weld is missing and can get visual access.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 01 May 2018, 15:05

They'd probably take the trim off / protection - should be visible enough once they know where it is.

It is very strange how they determine these VIN sequences for recalls as I am aware, for example, of drivers with the windscreen wiper motor recall issue that were outside the VIN range - but still had the same issues as those who had the units replaced. I suspect there may be a few outside their capture windows to be honest Rick.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by qprdude » 01 May 2018, 15:09

There's no way of checking and certainly no way of forcing them to check, unfortunately.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by bobins » 05 May 2018, 10:01

A missing spot weld on the body would actually constitue quite a serious flaw. The bodyshell would have undergone crash testing and certification to a standard spec and construction method, remove an operation from that construction process and the bodyshell would no longer be compliant to the relevant quality and safety standards. There would be no 'get out clause' for Citroen as they cannot claim the weld is missing due to wear and tear / customer modification / etc, and it would be a clear case of selling a car that does not meet stated crash safety standards. There would also be a case for opening legal proceding against Citroen if, in the event of an accident and the car occupants were injured, it could be proved that the injuries were more severe due to the car not meeting the required crash standards.

In interesting other developments regarding recalls - I see that the DVSA are launching a criminal investigation against Vauxhall (now owned by PSA, lest we forget) regarding the well known Zafira fires that have been occurring. This is an interesting development as the car industry in general has normally been fairly immune to such 'government' legal actions - being as the industry is a large employer and no politician wants job losses on their patch due to a manufacturer shifting production elsewhere. Even more interesting, the Zafira fires were mainly due to fires from badly fitted aftermarket blower resistors due to the original ones failing - so the fires aren't directly Vauxhall's fault. Perhaps the DVSA considers Vauxhall should have done more to warn owners of the perils of doing 'bodge jobs' when replacing the original duff resistors. Perhaps Vauxhall shouldn't have fitted 'duff' resistors in the first place ??? Perhaps the legal procedings have nothing to do with Zafira fires and are in fact a Government inspired 'shot across the bows' to the motor industry as a whole and is directed towards Europe with the implication being - "play ball over BREXIT or we'll start holding manufacturers to account.... and nobody wants that to happen" :lol:
Further reading on the Zafira fires:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43987134

And.... we can soon look forward to rather overcrowded CitroenPeugeotDSVAuxhall showrooms:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43789933
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Re: Recalls.

Post by wheeler » 05 May 2018, 13:43

The concerned heater parts that are going on fire are actually Fiat parts. Quite a few fiats suffer from the same problem, the doblo for one.
To be fair this type of fault is not a new thing. Many times over the years on lots of different makes & models of car i have replaced loads of heater resistors that have been not far off being a ‘thermal incident’.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by Richard_C » 10 May 2018, 19:43

Interesting stories from Rome this week about bus fires caused by electrical faults, whole bus ends up as a burnt out shell. You might have thought that a self-immolating service bus near the Trevi fountain would have caused a major fuss and immediate recall: the reaction locally is "oh, there goes another one". 10 so far this year, 22 last year. Only one slightly singed passer-by. Presumably the fires will stop when they have run out - 300 on the fleet so they're 10% of the way through them already.

Back to topic, recalls and a more general question. I know that if there is a mandated safety recall DVLA use their database to contact registered keepers. You can look them up as well. If its a 'running repairs' not safety critical recall I think the manufacturers make contact. I have heard vague stories about recalls for my Picasso, adblue cap and a check on clutch linkage, maybe more. I bought it c. 1 year old from a distant Citroen dealer, had it serviced last year at a local Citroen dealer who gave up the franchise (grrrr), so I guess I'm out of the communication loop.

Is there a place online to go look and get an authoritative list of Citroen safety and non-safety recalls for a particular VIN number?
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Re: Recalls.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 May 2018, 19:50

I found the BMW issue interesting in that they 'extended' their recall to include prior vehicles outside the previous recall cohort. That tells me that the system they have at the factory is not really fit for purpose considering those that had the same issues on earlier cars.

I suspect that it will make other manufacturers sit up and re-evaluate any similar scenarios.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by fastjet » 10 May 2018, 20:59

The VX blower resistors have been an issue for some time. I had a 2003 Vectra C in 2003 that had a blower resistor failure, fortunately with no consequences. The thermal fuse on the VX ones blows at quite a low temperature for fire safety reasons. Rummer has it that the aftermarket ones had a higher temperature fuse fitted, hence the problems. My VX resistor pack cost £70 in 2003, the blown thermal fuse is 25p, but you could not buy the correct value at that time to make a safe repair.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by bobins » 10 May 2018, 21:09

According to the DVSA recalls website https://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recall ... lt.asp?tx= a safety recall is such that....

"Safety defect - A safety related defect is a failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others. This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom."
Vehicle safety defects and recalls: code of practice : https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... f-practice

I would presume the dreaded C5 X7 steering rack failures don't fail "without prior warning to the user" so aren't considered a safety defect :shock:
GiveMeABreak wrote:
10 May 2018, 19:50
I found the BMW issue interesting in that they 'extended' their recall to include prior vehicles outside the previous recall cohort. That tells me that the system they have at the factory is not really fit for purpose considering those that had the same issues on earlier cars.
It tells me that motor manufacturer's primary concern is making money :roll: Safety is just far enough down the priorities list that it doesn't hit profits too hard 8-[
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Re: Recalls.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 May 2018, 21:15

I would have to agree, considering the VW scandal, it doesn’t seem to have dented their profits too much, but for BMW, I suspect it has taken them down a few pegs in the eyes of those who think they can do no wrong!
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Re: Recalls.

Post by myglaren » 10 May 2018, 21:40

bobins wrote:
10 May 2018, 21:09
It tells me that motor manufacturer's primary concern is making money :roll: Safety is just far enough down the priorities list that it doesn't hit profits too hard 8-[


I once heard the quote that "Ford is not in the business of making cars, they are in the business of making money".

Universally applicable it seems.
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Re: Recalls.

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 10 May 2018, 21:55

myglaren wrote:
10 May 2018, 21:40
bobins wrote:
10 May 2018, 21:09
It tells me that motor manufacturer's primary concern is making money :roll: Safety is just far enough down the priorities list that it doesn't hit profits too hard 8-[


I once heard the quote that "Ford is not in the business of making cars, they are in the business of making money".

Universally applicable it seems.

And Ford have a history of making vehicles that need to be recalled. Ford Pinto, anybody?
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Re: Recalls.

Post by bobins » 10 May 2018, 22:11

Serious question - is there actually a reliable, mass market, car manufacturer that doesn't treat their customers with contempt once they've bought the car ? In the last few years there's been problems with VW, BMW, Citroen and the damned steering racks, I know Peugeot can be a pain, Vauxhall and their flambé'd Zafiras. How do Ford, Renault, Volvo, Mercedes, Kia, and all the others fare ?
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