Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

[bobins]

Although components under the bonnet will catch fire, most of them are made of fire resistant materials these days so are a lot less susceptible to actual flames / burning. Most things will burn with flames in the right conditions, but things like fuse boxes are designed to resist getting to those conditions.

Refering back to a previous point I made, I think you ought to consider reporting this to the DVSA - not for the purpose of putting any form of pressure on Citroen, but because there may have been many more incidents like this that we just don't know of and DVSA are on the point of instigating a recall on such vehicles, and the only thing stopping them doing so is lack of reports. Having said that, yours might be the only one that's ever caught fire !

[Sezza]

Good point about reporting, as if no one reports they won't get to know that there could be a fundamental problem. Although so far it does seem to be a freak as my dealers have never seen it; the RAC man had never seen a burnt out fuse box, and none of you so far have mentioned similar.

I will report it once I get a better feel for things - right now too stressed to take on another strand of explanations.

[wurlycorner]

I used ECU as a generic term - my previous post probably wasn't clear in that.
There isn't just one ECU on the car, there are various (the Citroen dealer is talking meaningless in saying they need to "replace the ECU" - because there are various of them) hence it is actually a generic term.
The BSI is also an ECU, for example.
When they said "ECU", I can only guess they meant the Injection/Engine Management ECU??? But clearly we are guessing.

I think Marc confirmed I was right in that the BSI also being known as the "ANC Control Box", in which case I confirmed it is still available and is listed at £291.


Marc, I was pretty confused why you posted up "...about £...." prices for the items I mentioned, when I'd posted the actual retail prices for the items as from service.citroen?

[Sezza]

Dealer has just confirmed that their mention of an ECU IS the injection / engine management one.

Also that based on my car's VIN, the matching BSI part they found was listed at something like £260'ish (not £291) and marked as unavailable ......

They have also confirmed that they don't believe insurers ever did speak to them, and certainly in the time frame mentioned by the insurer, they had only had sight of the externals of the car which are completely undamaged as the fuse box cover contained things, and they hadn't opened the bonnet to look. They feel that it IS a legitimate fire claim and encourage me to go back and challenge.

Have to say the dealership - NT Shaw at Louth (or at least the Service Receptionist guy I have routinely been speaking to) has been extremely helpful - hurray for good Customer Service!

[wurlycorner]

Well it's good you're pleased with the service - that really helps at a time like this.

I still think they're going down the lines I said with the BSI and whether or not it's available...

Paste below is a screen dump of the parts system for all the variations of BSI that were fitted to your model of car (C5 X7 with a DW10C engine);


Where a part says "NFP" it means it is no longer available.

You'll see that all the NFP's are against items listed as "Configured part...VIN to be specified in order..."Those are the parts that would come with all the right software for your car pre-installed. e.g. part "6580 SV"
However the same part is available without being pre-configured. e.g. the 'un-configured' version of "6580 SV" is immediately below it - "6570 62".

FWIW, configured part "6580 NN" is £254.76, so that could be the "£260ish" one they're referring to.
However the equivalent un-configured part from "6580 NN" is "6580 NL". That part is also no longer available but has been superseded by "6580 ZL" which is available and is £435.

All the un-configured parts options in that list still show as available (even if they've been superseded - as above)


FWIW, The £291 I quoted earlier were prices against a couple of the BSI's that I had looked up from that list at random - not knowing exactly which one of the various possibles it was I just picked some for examples (e.g. 6580SV and 6580NQ are both listed at that price)

Either way, if the garage can't suss out above then Citroen UK should be able to clear it up for them...

Alternatively it could be possible that even though the system shows the un-configured part is available, it for some reason isn't - I've had that problem recently with a clutch for the C2. However that only became apparent when trying to actually place a pukka order the item.


If the BSI were genuinely to be no longer available from Citroen, then you might light to ask some questions about Citroen's liabilities to provide parts supply for minimum number of years...

[bobins]

FWIW, configured part "6580 NN" is £254.76, so that could be the "£260ish" one they're referring to.
However the equivalent un-configured part from "6580 NN" is "6580 NL". That part is also no longer available but has been superseded by "6580 ZL" which is available and is £435.

I wonder if the reason that p/n 6580 NL was superceded by 6580 ZL was because 6580 NL used to catch fire a lot and so they had to use modified p/n 6580 ZL ?

[GiveMeABreak]

I think Marc confirmed I was right in that the BSI also being known as the "ANC Control Box", in which case I confirmed it is still available and is listed at £291.

Marc, I was pretty confused why you posted up "...about £...." prices for the items I mentioned, when I'd posted the actual retail prices for the items as from service.citroen?

Correct Iain - Apologies, it seems I was having some cache issues at the time, whilst looking up similar for somebody else - price for the BSI (ANC Control) is confirmed as Part 6580ZN (£260.50) for this car BUT NFP no longer available. Normally, when they don't have a 'pre-configured' part (pre-VIN coded / programmed), they offer a 'virgin' option that has to be coded and programmed later - but in this case there are no alternatives listed.

As for the Injection ECU, there are 2 available, depending on the air flow sensor used - Continental or Hitachi variants.
£1129.13 for the continental
£1481.85 for the Hitachi

So kitchen sink maths for the main parts:
Circa £2160 Labour inc the VAT
£1481 for the injection ECU
£90 Fuse box
£20 Injector Harness
£396 for the Main Engine Harness

So without the BSI as it's no longer obtainable new, you are looking at nearly £4.2k without any other harnesses or 'bits'.

I do think it ridiculous that they can't supply a new BSI though for a 2013 year car - that is plain nuts as without this you have no car. I'm sure they could find a compatible one though and just download the configuration - as a lot of these are shared across models in PSA, so one for PSA France I think.

I bet Sarcosi wouldn't have had a problem if the presidential C6 threw a wobbly and needed a BSI back in the day...

[bobins]

Not related to the OPs car, but a similar fault (short circuit / overheat) seems to be on the recalls list.....

DVSA recalls - DVSA

[GiveMeABreak]

Interesting to know, Bobins, but unfortunately - in the above example, they are using Peugeot VIN references (VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]) - so no good for checking you Citroen VIN.

[wurlycorner]

Cheers marc - that's looked up by the correct VIN then?
Obviously that's going to be more accurate, I was just going by C5 X7 - 5 Door Estate - 2.0 HDi 140 FAP (DW10C), with the latter going on the engine code shown on the engine harness in one of the pics posted

It's typical that the exact part number needed for this vehicle was just off the bottom of the screenshot I posted

As you say, these BSI's are pretty generic things at heart (software config aside and changing manufacturer) so it's ridiculous if they're unable to match another one.


Looking at how the overall repair cost is racking up...
Obviously a used/reconditioned/repaired Injection ECU and BSI is going to be significantly cheaper, as would an after market auto electrician.
It's still not gonna be cheap though

[Gibbo2286]

It's a pity this is so far away, it's the sort of thing I'd relish having a go at, maybe even buying.

[bobins]

Peugeot's suffer the same problem as well......

DVSA Peugeot recalls - DVSA

[GiveMeABreak]

Cheers marc - that's looked up by the correct VIN then?

Yes, because Sarah doesn't have a 140 engine (they were only available on the DW10BTED4 - I have one), Sarah has a DW10CTED4 engine - completely different design for Euro 5 and that is a 163.

As you say, these BSI's are pretty generic things at heart (software config aside and changing manufacturer) so it's ridiculous if they're unable to match another one.

Certain BSI units are used across a specific series - engine design, as they incorporate specific features and compatibility with the different engine ECU variants and other components / ECUs that change. So not all the BSI units are compatible - that is why there are so many of them.

Looking at how the overall repair cost is racking up...
Obviously a used/reconditioned/repaired Injection ECU and BSI is going to be significantly cheaper, as would an after market auto electrician.
It's still not gonna be cheap though

Yes, and of course finding a matched BSI / Injection ECU / Transponder set.

I really hope Citroen come through for her on this one....

[wurlycorner]

Yes, because Sarah doesn't have a 140 engine (they were only available on the DW10BTED4 - I have one), Sarah has a DW10CTED4 engine - completely different design for Euro 5 and that is a 163.

I'm just going off this list, which says there is a DW10C and it's 140 bhp.


And I took DW10C from the pic posted below from the car;


Hence, selecting that model from the list seemed like the entirely logical match.

Just to note, my natural suspicion that a Citroen dealer won't interpret the parts list/availability correctly is based on numerous personal bad experiences with a couple of Citroen dealers, who continually told me they either couldn't find the part at all, or it wasn't available (which when I then looked up, I found to be incorrect and then ordered the part by giving them the part number myself).
I think that's partly due to the Citroen parts system not being entirely intuitive in many ways but mostly due to them being unfamiliar with the car.
I find that particularly true now that most dealers don't have a technically trained person the parts desk, just a generic 'customer service' person...

Looks like maybe Sarah's lucky and she has one of those exceedingly rare things - a dealer with tech's that are familiar with the car, can properly diagnose it and a parts desk that know what they are doing!


Marc, for my future info, where did you find the Injection ECU (which sub-sections of the parts system) cause on my brief perusal, I wasn't able to find it (an example of the system not being very intuitive )

[GiveMeABreak]

It's located under the Air & Fuel Supply and is referred to as 'INJ CALCULATOR SENSOR' Iain. There is sometimes a translation issue from the French so we get some obscure English translations!

Just to confirm Sarah has a C5 (X7) 5 DOOR ESTATE 2.0 HDi 163 PEF (DW10CTED4) Manual gearbox 6