Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

[Sezza]

Aha - you mention needing the VIN - that could be more of a challenge as most paperwork in the car and my home filing systems erratic at best But I'll have a look!

[Sezza]

Luckily, my electronic filing somewhat more efficient.

Found the invoice for the Sat Nav map updates I purchased, and they confirm VIN as:-

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]*******

[GiveMeABreak]

It's ok sarah, I just wanted to check Fuse F14 - 'Not Used' based on the configuration that I used for a similar model. But if you have your Reg No that would help, I can get the VIN from that. PM it to me if you don't want to post it up.

Interesting about the Power Steering you mentioned as that is an 80 Amp Maxi Fuse (MF3) that controls the Power Steering Electro Pump. So could be worth them looking at the Maxi Fuses too.

Ok - just seen your post, got it, thanks

[GiveMeABreak]

Great - confirmed Fuse F14 is not used.

[Sezza]

So one fuse less to worry about then? LOL

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes, so it is now a matter of identifying what specifically caused the heat build up and the subsequent melting of the surrounding area, that seems to have caused knock-on effects of the surrounding circuits. At that point the surrounding fuses would have probably blown or melted, but the underlying deformed circuits may have closed activating the starter motor for example.

We'll have a better idea once they have traced it back to find culprit. So the issues with the wipers acting funny (to start with) and then later the starter motor operating independently, may have been caused as the heat was causing damage and was spreading, affecting each surrounding circuit.

The maxi fuses and connectors are good places for them to start as they carry a lot of current. Let's see what they discover.

[bobins]

I would hope Citroen would be very worried by this event.....worth some pressure on them regarding a "Serious Safety Concern"

Sarah - As per what Sticky says.
Depending on what the garage find, and depending on how Citroen treat you..........
..........you might want to familiarise yourself with the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency policy on 'a serious defect that affects the safety of your car'
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and- ... ety-defect

Your 'fire' would fit the description of a serious defect etc....

[Gibbo2286]

I've seen problems like this caused by a variety of faults, chafing wires on a sharp edge, water ingress through wading in a flood, incompetent diy fitting add ons, or can't be bothered to refit the under-trays, even wiring chewed by rats/mice.

[Sezza]

Citroen UK have called back. Nothing much to say apart from dealer has confirmed there was some sort of fire in the fusebox, but they haven't had a chance to investigate further. Dealer will check likely not until early next week and then report to both Citroen and me. Citroen still saying nothing too much but confirm that if the failure not due to wear and tear; lack of maintenance; or unusual activity then they would likely fund the repairs - but of course no promise until they get report from the dealer.

Also Citroen felt that insurers were being cheeky refusing claim because luckily car wasn't actually destroyed by fire, but only damaged LOL They couldn't believe they would prefer a total right-off burnt out car than a damaged one!

[wurlycorner]

I'm not that surprised the insurer declined the claim.
It's not an arson attack or as a result of an accident etc. so it's not really their problem.

The insurer is generally only insuring things you do with the car (things you hit and damage) or things that are done to the car by others in a driving/theft capacity and any injury to people as a result of either of those kind of instances.
They don't insure against things like wear and tear (that's just life), faulty repair and maintenance (the garage's public liability cover is for that) or far a manufacturing/design fault (the oem's public liability and warranty etc is for that) or as a sale of defective goods (the car dealers liability is to cover that).
Obviously that's a very simplistic breakdown of categories/scenarios, but just as an example of boundaries of liability.

I'm pleasantly surprised by Citroen UK and the dealers responses so far tbh - I hope it continues on that vein, although I strongly have my doubts...

Lol - sorry not offering anything particularly positive in this response - I don't mean it to be unhelpful/unsympathetic!

[Sezza]

Dealer has now been in touch.

Not good news.

Their best guess at this point (before dismantling which may uncover more), is a BSI unit; ECU; 2 new wiring looms - for starters + at least 20 hours of labour. But they then go on to say the BSI unit for my car is no longer available from Citroen ........ so that apparently makes by car irreparable - at least not repairable by a dealer using real new parts to ensure a decent warranty. Cost of this = £6,500.00.

Citroen UK have been advised, but the person handling my claim had gone for the day so won't be able to speak to them until Monday .........

So unless Citroen will step in, seems I am scr**d ..........

(Anyone want to buy a lovely Citroen C5 Tourer great mechanics, just won't start at the moment .... )

[wurlycorner]

That sounds.... Not quite right tbh.

Without your VIN, it's not possible to look up the exact parts and for some reason finding the ECU's seems to be a bit difficult/not intuitive on the citroen parts system (I expect marc or some others will find them in a flash) but...

Based on what I could find, it looks a similar situation as on my much older C5 - the ECU's are still available (and they bloody should be, considering they only stopped making the C5 X7 a couple of years ago!!!)
What they can't get, is a 'pre-configured' ECU (i.e. with the VIN and all software settings for your exact model pre-set), what they they can get though, is a 'virgin' ECU which they then have to set up (should be easy enough for them, they just download the exact configuration for your car from the Citroen database and upload it to the ECU and hey-presto)

Also the price looks a bit steep... I only found a couple of things, but from what I could see, one part of the fuse box was £91, another bit of the fuse box was £29, what I think was the BSI (marc do they call it a 'ANC Control Box'?) was £219, complete main harness (the entire engine bay front harness) £912. Total of that lot = £1,251
Now that's not everything they mentioned (and may not be the right thing for the BSI) but it's a big chunk of it and that's still a long, long way off £6,500...

[GiveMeABreak]

Iain, the engine fuse box is only about £90, it is also a slave unit to the BS which is also called an ANC box, which is currently about £386. I suspect that they may have quoted for the wiring looms to be replaced between the BSI and the fuse box and possibly other components, so a labour intensive job if this has to be done, as normally of course these are put into place at the factory during the assembly process. It may be a lot more involved taking fittings off to replace these now including parts of the dash for example.

At something like £90+ an hour labour for 20 hours that would be £1800, but there are a lot of supplementary components and additional harnesses that could be required, then of course the dreaded VAT on the labour at least. So all those little parts will add up.

It does sound a lot though on the face of it without knowing everything they have have quoted for. I suspect at this stage they have simply GUESStimated it, if in fact they have not had sufficient time to thoroughly examine and cost everything properly.

Let’s see what Citroen come back with, as the dealer will no doubt be paid by Citroen to do the repairs, they will not underquote for sure!

[jgra1]

I do have a complete spare engine harness for the 160 .. but as said I suspect the other engine bay harnesses are more of a priority .. will follow what happens.
John

[Sezza]

... to clarify, it is the BSI for this car that they say is no longer available - not the ECU.

They said ECU cost £1500
Two wiring looms, I think he said one costing 1200 and the other 400
+ at least 20 hours of labour .....

No price for the BSI as he said it was unavailable from Citroen!

He then said they wouldn't use a 2nd hand BSI either as that would invalidate repair warranty. (TBH, not sure how specific to a car a BSI is, nor how likely to get one which was working and how you would tell??)

Also now wondering if the insurers refusal to get involved *might* be due in part to mis-communication.

I registered the claim saying issue a burnt-out fuse box and explained the sequence of events. When I finally spoke to the Total Loss agent on Thursday afternoon, he was focussing on the lack of flames and body work fire damage and kept reiterating they are not responsible for failed parts as we are not talking about a mechanical warranty. I did try emphasising that the fuse box hadn't failed in any normal sense, but had been destroyed by heat/fire. He said he'd spoken to the dealer, and they too had confirmed no fire damage to the body, which I agree there wasn't. BUT at the time he spoke to the dealer they hadn't opened the bonnet to look, as they had been told the previous day that the car was going to be collected by insurers and they weren't going to be involved.

So if the Q? to the garage was about visible fire damage, and no one actually asked / mentioned about engine bay fire damage that hadn't impacted the body, that could be why insurers are taking the stance that no fire = no claim. I suppose that most engine bay fires are large and fierce due to all the combustibles around - I was just (or so I thought) lucky that the fuse box contained everything and I didn't open the bonnet to look, and that restricted the fire to a smoulder rather than a full-blown conflagration!

So I feel I will have to challenge the insurers again - particularly as I now have pictures clearly shown burning in the fuse box, but might wait to see what Citroen UK say on Monday. I wonder if I play the 'I've owned 7 Citroens, and had them almost continuously for almost 40 years' card might cut it at all? LOL)

... now off to try and find a neighbour who will take me to the shops (9 miles away for more than the village store).

Not sure which I hate most - not having wheels so feeling trapped, or the not knowing what is going to happen.

Me not having fun *sigh*