Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

[xantia_v6]

I suspect that you might have some difficulty getting your insurer to accept a claim.

I have known a case where an insurance company would only payout a claim for a vehicle fire if flames were visible, smoke not withstanding. Even if the insurer accepts that there was a fire, they will not normally pay for the repair or replacement of the item that caused the fire (in this case apparently the fuse box), only for consequential damage, and until the fusebox is replaced it will not be obvious if there is any consequential damage.

I would guess that the original problem here was a high resistance connection on a fuse or other component, likely caused by corrosion. Quite likely a component (relay or fuse) that handles a high current item, like the cooling fan or A/C fan. If that is the case, then there is a good chance that nothing else has been damaged.

[GiveMeABreak]

Agreed, there are a lot of high power connections there including the alternator connection, starter etc.

[wurlycorner]

Seems to be an isolated incident - these things happen unfortunately (on all sorts of cars), although obviously that doesn't make it any less scary or inconvenient for you and I am sorry you've had to suffer it.

Wait to hear back from the insurer.
If they take it up with Citroen, that's immaterial to whether they pay about to you - that's them passing the claim on up the chain, doesn't affect their contract with you.

If they don't accept the claim then I would say yes, you have nothing to lose by getting a reputable automotive electrical tech to look at the car. If the cable damage is limited to between the battery and the fuse box (not downstream) then it could be a very simple fix.
It's worth pointing out though, that the insurance company are likely to get this assessment carried out anyway, in order to work out where they accept the claim and whether it is sufficient to write the car off or not (they would send out an assessor).

[Gibbo2286]

Regarding the fuse idea I think you would have to replace the fuse with an iron nail to cause this to happen, just about any ordinary fuse available for cars would still blow before so much damage was done.

[GiveMeABreak]

Well thermal fuses can be dodgy for a start - just look at the all the Vauxhall Zafira fires if you're not convinced. I just hope with the new acquisition of GM Europe that they don't use any of those blower resistors in PSA vehciles:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... 62/962.pdf

As I mentioned earlier somewhere, if there is corrosion entering the fuse box / relays and power connectors then the corrosion can cause a higher resistance and that will generate additional heat.

Just look at this picture of a VW - the lower 30A fuse to the fans (under the 2 remaining green ones) is shot, but the lower connector is to the alternator. You can see how it has started to melt the casing, which could account for the smoke.

[Sezza]

Well finally got to talk to the 'Total Loss - Fire' man at about 15.45 (so much for a call from them promised for this morning!).

Anyway, for the insurance sceptics amongst us, they have refused the claim Their 'acid' test being a) did I see any flames, and b) how much of the bodywork was damaged by the flames.

So as I sensibly didn't open the bonnet whilst it was actively smoking, thereby restricting the fire to the fuse box, and thereby saving damage to the car body work, it doesn't class as a fire!

So moral is if you have a small fire, encourage it to get bigger to ensure you can claim As moral seems to be 'No flame - no claim'!

So having wasted a day, I have now had to ask main dealer to have a look at the car (which might not be until next week) + they have warned that their workshop very busy, so repairs if agreed not likely to be quick.

No courtesy car from anyone, so car-less.

No money also = carless (unless I can find a really cheap runaround - oh where is my previous lovely C5 that was 13 years old but running fine (just a few failed electrics like one window controller and the rear wash-wipe ) when I traded it in with 6 months MOT for the grand sum of £400 last year - I could do with a car like that right now!)

On the very slightly +side, I did call Citroen UK Customer Care. Lady I spoke to very friendly and sympathetic - but of course not her job to comment, who took down all the details, and ais going to contact the dealer where the car is tomorrow to ask for their thoughts. The issue has been logged as a 'thermal priority'!!! She says she will call me back tomorrow to say what will then happen - probably nothing, but at least I have tried.

... and I do feel that it shouldn't be expected for a fuse box to have a hissy-fit in a 5 year old car. Yes, some other part may have malfunctioned, but that is what fuses are for - to cut off the power to that device and limit damage - not for the whole fusebox etc. to melt!

So life on-hold for now until someone decides if anything can be done which I can afford.

Else car will have to be sold as-is for someone else to try and fix, and I'll have to revert back to a banger for wheels ...

(How much is a car like mine worth with a burnt-out fuse box? Surely even if sold for salvage, there must be a reasonable amount of value in engine, gear box, body panels, etc.?)

A very p'eed off Sarah.

[GiveMeABreak]

Sarah, very sorry to hear the verdict - but as you say unless it's the 'towering inferno' unlikely to be a fire claim as you say.

Fingers crossed that the dealer can get in there and have a good squiz at the damage. You may be lucky and find that the damage isn't too extensive - it really depends on what caused it in the first place. Fingers crossed for you, but until you know what it faulty and the cost to repair, it won't be too easy to put a value on it at this moment. Do let us know what the outcome is. I hope that Citroen are treating this as a priority for you as I think it extremely important to understand what caused it.

I suspect some of us are now checking our BSM modules and connectors.

[lexi]

Sorry to hear about all this Sarah. I am sorry that I cannot give you my £400 car that is fettled to drive anywhere and yet be left in a scrappy's without any thought or financial loss. A true saying: It's not what it costs, but how much you loss.

[Sezza]

Well someone on my local FB page has offered me a 'tatty' but reliable starting Passat Estate. Serviced 2 months ago and with new tyres for £500.00. Only got a couple of months of MOT though ...... Not seen it yet. (I really need an estate for wheels if for more than a few days as I need to take my 4 dogs around in it at times, so a little mini-car won't cut it for longer than a week or two).

Meanwhile Citroen dealer who have my car have been warned that Citroen UK will be contacting them to ask their opinion once they've had the chance to look, and on the back of that I've asked them to take some pictures to E-Mail to me so that I can maybe challenge insurers again. (As I didn't have a mobile with me, I didn't have any pictures, although the RAC man took 1!). Garage have said they will do that, so they are trying to be helpful at the moment.

So all not yet definately lost

[Sezza]

Give the dealer their due, within 15 minutes of me phoning them this morning they have sent some picutres ...

The whole engine bay:-



... and a couple of close-ups of the actual charred remains





This can't be the beginning of the end for my lovely car .....



Sarah

[Gibbo2286]

Looks cheaply fixable to me, breaker's yard for parts and a bit of time.

[GiveMeABreak]

Thanks for those pictures Sarah, I'll have a look and see what area that charred mess was related to - I really hope a new fuse box and a check of the associated components will result in resurrection!

Sarah - do you have a manual or Auto box on yours?

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so here is the diagram of the affected area, highlighted in green, with the suspect fuses marked with red blobs.

Recalling Sarah's account below, it would seem that there was an issue with the wipers initially - and then as you can see, the fuse relating to the starter motor (F8) is right next to the Wiper Motor (F12). So it's possible that the damage from the wiper motor circuit could have affected the starter circuit causing that to operate as Sarah says... Anyway at least we have some idea of the components now - it's just down to the cause.

it suddenly popped up with a warning about the Automatic Wiping (didn't see if it said 'activated' or Deactivated' - but I wasn't using or touching the wipers! This closely followed by the Service light ....I tried operating the wipers and nothing happened although the wiper blade was 'fluttering' a bit. I decided not to worry and hoped the issue would re-set after car stopped / re-started.

...Then the car tried to start itself!

F3: 10A Batt + Front/rear screen wash pump
F5: 15A Batt + Multifunction Motor Control
F7: 10A Ignition Controlled +ve, Gear lever blocking actuator control relay automatic gearbox - ECU and electrohydraulic block automatic gearbox - electrohydraulic power steering
F8: 20A / 25A Batt +Starter Motor Control
F12: 30A Batt + Windscreen Wiper
F14: Not used - but can't confirm until I know all the options / VIN

[Stickyfinger]

I would hope Citroen would be very worried by this event.....worth some pressure on them regarding a "Serious Safety Concern"

Best of luck

[Sezza]

Hello,

Thank you so much for looking. Still awaiting a call from garage or Citroen UK.

it's a manual gear box. Car is a 2012 build / 2013 registered HDi 160 bhp VTR + Technopack tourer. All else standard as far as I am aware.

Order of errors (as I saw them):

1: Defo the w/wipers - although I *think* just a standard activation message - although I hadn't touched the wipers, followed by the wipers 'fluttering', then quickly followed by the yellow SERVICE light (but didn't notice any other symbols).

Next thing within seconds was the car lost power - or at least when I went to accelerate away from a roundabout the car was sluggish - like it is when in 'Safe' mode ...

The next thing I was aware of was red warnings about Power steering failing, and the red STOP now messages. (May well have been other stuff too, but those are the ones I read).

Steering was sluggish and I quickly came to a stop.

Turned ignition off (I *think* the engine was still running).

Noticed smoke from Passenger side bonnet and got out to have a look. A few minutes (?) later the starter motor began to turn over although ignition off and me not in the car!

Rushed back and removed ignition keys.

Smoke continued to increase.

A short time later the starter again turned over a few times sluggishly, and some audible alarms from the car.

That was the last I saw / heard from the electrics!

Smoke continued for about 20-30 minutes before ceasing.

I think that is about it. LOL