Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by GiveMeABreak » 20 Apr 2018, 21:13

:-D
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by Sezza » 05 May 2018, 08:02

Two weeks on - I'll try and keep it brief ...

Basically had more conversations with C UK CS (a different person again as I *think* the last lady avoiding me 8-) ). Tried to raise the issue of the tech report giving a mistaken outcome as the dealer had told me that wire was NOT burnt out. So whilst no where nearer proving a mfct problem, it certainly wasn't caused by a mis-placed earth! C UK insisted that their Techies were the experts and their conclusions couldn't be challenged regardless. So that was that! Case closed. They did say that I could try the Ombudsman if I wanted to pursue more.

Spoke to Ombudsman who confirmed C UK a member and therefore have signed up to certain good practices, BUT then went on to say that as a manufacturer, their agreements only related to new cars and cars under warranty, so my car not covered. They did however agree to review the disputed techie report, but that needs me to submit a full report + get the agreement of the dealer and the technician (with full details of his qualifications etc.) involved to be cited in such a report. Not sure how willing they would be and haven't followed that up as yet ..... But Ombudsman also confirmed that whatever was found, it wouldn't affect the general outcome with regard to me as my car was not covered by their protection as too old ...... All they could do was to recommend maybe a change in process at C UK for the future.

Spoke to the dealer about being referenced in an Ombudsman report and they refused to be involved (in a polite and 'sorry we can't help' sort of way. I guess that they don't want to upset their business relationship with C UK :(

So now left just with the option to take problem back to the motor trader I bought the car from under the Consumer Rights Act of 2015. What I didn't realise is that the seller has a responsibility for 6 years after the sale of the item IF the goods fail and that failure can be classed as an 'inherent fault'. The seller need not have been aware of the fault, but it is their responsibility to fix / replace / or refund the cost if such a fault becomes evident. BUT the onus of proof is on me! As advised by info. on the Consumer Rights Act blurb, I did contact the dealer (a sole trader) who luckily is still in business. and somewhat unsurprisingly he laughed like a drain when I explained about my call and that it related to a car purchased form him 13 months previously. Mind you, he was positive it was nothing to do with him once 6 months had passed from the date of sale. He is in fact mistaken, but of course proving the fault is a hard one.

Generally people I speak to have said they can't understand how the insurers can wriggle out of it, so the advice was that if I wanted to pursue further, then the only way forward was to get an Independent Assessment done.

This now done and the report received on Thursday. Basically, whilst it doesn't draw any conclusions as to the start of the fire, it does emphasises that there are signs of burning i.e. flames to components in the fuse box. They have said that based on the damage the car is an economic write-off (which we knew). They have said that based on condition etc. the Glasses guide value is just under £6500 (which is what I hoped!), and that in their opinion a fair settlement would be to pay out that much minus the cost of the damaged source component which they are citing as the fuse box. As that costs about £120, they are suggesting that amount be withheld. Now if the insurers were to go with that, it would be a result.

I am assured that the report produced is the same as one produced for an insurer rather than me as the owner, as they don't take sides.

They also say that the salvage value is about £1800 ...... more than the 'few hundred pounds' others had indicated the car was worth if scrapped.

Anyway, insurers have been advised that I have this report and want to challenge their refusal of the claim. They were very friendly on the phone (I guess better than the aggressive tone taken when I spoke to them previously) once I explained. They asked for a copy of the report, and said that they would get their assessors involved. Bearing in mind that to date the insurers hadn't even seen the pictures as they said they didn't want to as no 'flame' damage to the main car. So I am now awaiting their assessors to review and a response back. TBH, not even sure if they will get their assessor out, or will just take my report as it is from a recognised insurance assessor firm?

So now just have to wait and see ........

(Meanwhile got a big shock when I went to tax my temporary wheels - a 2004 Passat 2 lt petrol) - it cost £290! My C5 was only £135!!!)

So there you go :?

Sarah
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Post by Eddie Nuff » 05 May 2018, 14:12

Citroen UK, nor any manufacturer, would ever be interested in admitting a fault in their vehicles which saw them responsible and tarnished their reputation. A huge amount of money is allocated to marketing s**t and convincing the buying public of its merits. Citroen UK can afford the time and money spent in sending you round and round in circles.

The insurance company, on the other hand, are in a different position. Putting pressure on them may produce results if you leave them no wriggle room.

As for the value put on your car it's worth what someone is prepared to pay for it for parts, because that's all it is at the moment.
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by Stickyfinger » 05 May 2018, 14:18

I would make a big fuss with the Ombudsman that Citroen are refusing to supply you the information that relates to their inspector and his/her qualifications and thus they are in fact witholding it from the Ombudsman.
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Post by Eddie Nuff » 05 May 2018, 15:37

Make as big a fuss as you want, the Ombudsman has already stated that whatever was found, it wouldn't affect the general outcome with regard to me as my car was not covered by their protection as too old

The car's too old, not on a Citroen warranty and the independent insurance assessor couldn't find the source of the fire. Citroën's response is simple, not our problem guv - and if you think it is we'll happily wait while you spend time and money proving us wrong.
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by Stickyfinger » 05 May 2018, 16:27

But they also state this : "They did however agree to review the disputed techie report, but that needs me to submit a full report + get the agreement of the dealer and the technician (with full details of his qualifications etc.) involved to be cited in such a report. "

I think I would have just fixed it with 2nd hand parts by now, fair play for perseverance.
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Post by Eddie Nuff » 06 May 2018, 08:51

And in order for that report to be reviewed all Sarah has to do is get the approval of the franchise she is making the complaint against, who have already told her where to go. She's not just getting the runaround from Citroen UK and the insurance company but the bloody Ombudsman as well.
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by Gibbo2286 » 06 May 2018, 09:35

Stickyfinger wrote:
05 May 2018, 16:27
But they also state this : "They did however agree to review the disputed techie report, but that needs me to submit a full report + get the agreement of the dealer and the technician (with full details of his qualifications etc.) involved to be cited in such a report. "

I think I would have just fixed it with 2nd hand parts by now, fair play for perseverance.


That's the common sense answer, probably very little cost if a competent mechanic or auto electrician got his hands on it.
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by Stickyfinger » 06 May 2018, 12:27

Christ on a stick, please do not start saying I have common sense, it would spoil a lifetime of effort !
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 06 May 2018, 12:31

Stickyfinger wrote:
06 May 2018, 12:27
Christ on a stick, please do not start saying I have common sense, it would spoil a lifetime of effort !

You do have common sense, but you also have the uncommon sense to try and keep that fact covered up! :D
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by EDC5 » 06 May 2018, 23:04

Stickyfinger wrote:
05 May 2018, 16:27
I think I would have just fixed it with 2nd hand parts by now, fair play for perseverance.


So are we talking just a new BSM?

Do we know for sure the BSI and or ECU have had it?
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by GiveMeABreak » 06 May 2018, 23:20

I think the official list of parts expected to be replaced included harnesses too Elis, but it will be one of those jobs that you won’t know for sure what has failed or is burnt out until you have gone to the expense of buying the main component replacements and start the job of repairing everything. I suspect that is the only way you will know for sure what else might need replacing.
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by EDC5 » 07 May 2018, 14:54

GiveMeABreak wrote:
06 May 2018, 23:20
I think the official list of parts expected to be replaced included harnesses too Elis, but it will be one of those jobs that you won’t know for sure what has failed or is burnt out until you have gone to the expense of buying the main component replacements and start the job of repairing everything. I suspect that is the only way you will know for sure what else might need replacing.


That's true Marc.

From those two pics of the damage it doesn't look too bad to my eye. If the car is only worth parts value then it would be worth spending a day disassembling the BSM and looking for whatever it was that actually failed. Can anyone confirm that the harness connectors have actually melted or is the damage to the internals of the BSM?
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by Sezza » 08 May 2018, 18:00

Re: the parts list. Now I am not techie enough to know what you are referring to as the 'BSM' ...

The dealer said both the BSI and the main ECU fried. List prices for those two almost £1800 (£1500 for the main ECU + £270 for the BSI)! He also said 2 wiring looms needed at I think another £1900. They then suggested 20 hours of work.

... with regards to why I just don't get it fixed .... fundamentally I haven't any spare cash to lay out on it! I have already had to load the credit card up to buy the runaround Passat and to pay for the Independent Insurance report! (... and of course I just don't think it is fair that I should have to pick up the tab!!!). Being on a low fixed income there just isn't the spare cash sloshing around ........ this car was supposed to be my last (biggish car anyway) before I get too old and decide that I can live with a small runabout. :wink:

Also, I don't have any good contacts for auto electricians. I have tried to contact a few locally advertising on internet, but neither got back to me. It is too much of a job for my local garage (who anyway charge an arm and a leg for labour as they are a Landrover specialist as well as being my local friendly garage LOL

I understand that for a techie person, then without hefty labour costs + maybe sourcing 2nd hand parts (the ECUs I guess a possibility, although not sure if you would get a used wiring loom? (That based on my lack of tech rather than any other reason LOL) So if you can DIY the repair, it would obviously be much more financially viable - but I can't - I found it a major struggle just to update the maps for the SatNav when I bought the car LOL

No word as yet from the insurers, so I think I will try and contact them tomorrow to see what is happening. By then they will have had 3 days to review my report, and if they are serious about things, to have commissioned (if not received), their own.

... and yes, perseverence is my middle name when I think someone is ripping me off! 8-)
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Re: Citroen C5 VTR 160 HDi fuse box spontanously melted

Post by GiveMeABreak » 08 May 2018, 19:25

That's £1129 for the engine ECU - but I suspect they have generalised on the figures for parts overall as they are nowhere near those prices and I have looked at the engine fuse box, the BSI and the injection ECU. I think I costed out most of the parts (that were available) on an earlier post - but I agree Sarah that unless you have the funds to throw at sourcing the parts and a sympathetic electrical specialist / or competent DIYer that understands these cars with the relevant diagnostic expertise to troubleshoot, the costs are just prohibitive.

I still hope something can be resolved for you and that your perseverance pays off. It may be that you will be better off selling it complete (such as it is - a non-runner) for parts and taking the loss.

Attempting a DIY repair is unknown territory, as nobody here can say 100% that it can be easily fixed. There are just too many variables with something like this and the extent of the damage can not be known until repair work actually starts - especially as if the BSI is gone, then there won't be diagnostic data available.

Keep at it as long as it is not costing you any more money, but realistically if there is no satisfactory outcome then you may realistically have to consider the alternative.
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