Grand Picasso on poor roads

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Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by reef2k »

I've owned my 07 GP for about a month and the most disappointing thing is the cars total inability to cope with poor road surfaces. i know this is well documented,but i still expected more,given it's a Citroen,and i've owned a few. I could understand it,if the car handled like a go-kart and was brilliant through the bends,but it's not,and the steering has absolutely no feel whatsoever and every broken surface,pothole is greeted with a bang,rattle or rumble of the suspension and tyres.
I would sacrifice one for the other,but it doesn't ride or handle well,which is what i find frustrating. It's great on main roads,drives like new,though some surfaces can be noisy,others are excellent,with just wind and tyre noise evident.
I live in Rural Suffolk and we have some very poor roads around here,but potholes are everywhere now,and on my fortnightly drive to Herts/Essex there are some dreadful surfaces even on the dual carriageways and the GP definitely lets you know they're there. Obviously there will be some wear in the suspension joints/bushes,but not enough to be flagged up as an advisory during it's MOT last month,so they must still be ok.
I'll get used to it i'm sure,but having owned a Xantia and two C5's in the past, i guess i'd been spoilt.
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by Michel »

I agree. I have one. It's bloody terrible on poor road surfaces. It's basically over-sprung. Load it up, the ride is much better. Without weight the ride is trashy and bouncy. The steering is totally lifeless but I don't mind that as it is a people-carrier not a sports-car. They lull you into a false sense of security because they are as easy to drive as any car.. and you forget you're driving a poor-handling bus, and try to corner quickly...

Mine's got good tyres on, pressures checked once a week, tracking spot on. Drives lovely on a smooth road. Terrible on anything but.

I dislike it now. It's not even any use for what I bought it for - putting bikes in the back! A shame, as it's a good, well maintained example with a major 1400 quid service with timing belt etc done in May last year, and a new clutch in October.
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

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Trashy,that's the word i was looking for ! Within a week of buying it,i loaded 3/4 of a ton of hardcore in the back and it was a smoother ride,as you'd expect,but the front wheels still crash over poor surfaces. i never expected pin-sharp steering,but with no feedback from the steering wheel,it's a nightmare on our icy lanes and you have no idea of it's limitations when you throw it into a bend on damp or even dry roads. This GP replaced my Fiat Doblo 1.9 jtd,which never won any prizes for style :) but was actually great fun to drive,even though it had rear leaf-springs and quite nippy having been re-mapped with a very modest 130 bhp. Ride and steering was good and very easy to carry out basic servicing and the engine was low-tech,not loaded with sensors,so cost me next to nothing to run,but obviously lacked the refinement of the GP. Another shock was the insurance,which was exactly double that of the Fiat.
i mainly use it as a van for collecting/delivering lawnmowers,but most of the time it's empty,so will just have to endure the frustrating ride :?

Yours sounds like a good buy,if you were to sell,but you've obviously spent a fortune on it recently,so probably best to hang on to it for a while longer.
Mine has done 101k,and having it's first ever timing belt replacement tomorrow,which is a year overdue. How long did your clutch last ? as i don't fancy the hefty bill for a new one just yet,then there's the turbo,which appear quite fragile on the 1.6 hdi :(
Last edited by reef2k on 20 Feb 2018, 10:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

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Last edited by RichardW on 20 Feb 2018, 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

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That is spot on.. brilliant !!
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by RichardW »

Never really noticed it on ours.. the bottom ball joints can have play and be a source of noise, but not picked up on MOT, and they only seem to last about 100k. I've always though the steering was OK - not as sharp as the 307 (although that has a noticeably bouncier ride, esp at the rear!). What tyres has it got on it?

Clutch went in ours at 90k - £800 to replace it... Actually the clutch and DMF was fine, it was just the £10 release bearing that gave up. To prolong the life of this, don't sit with your foot on the clutch in neutral, and to protect the DMF don't hold it on the clutch for longer than is absolutely necessary.

If it has been serviced properly, and there are no signs of injector blowby, then the turbo is probably OK. However, it would be best to get the filter removed from the lower banjo bolt on the turbo oil feed - which needs removal of the DPF, which needs removal of the radiator really. Could combine with the cam belt, as the water will be out anyway?
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by Old-Guy »

We too have a GC4P (2011 facelift model) - as a replacement for our much-missed S1 Xantia estate - and I'd agree with most of the above, though Goodyear Ultragrips on the front have quietened it a little. I won't say that buying it was a mistake, but it's been a big disappointment all round - sadly going back to a Xantia isn't an option for all the reasons that we reluctantly made the switch in the first place. Much of the problem is Citroen's desperate efforts to keep the weight down to meet Euro5 and still pass crash tests; minimal sound-proofing and many of the external panels are awfully flimsy. The springing is far too stiff with 2-up and no luggage - 7-up (4 adults and 3 children) and the back stuffed for a day on the beach transforms the ride even on crumbling Devon lanes, as does a big load (6 x 25Kg sacks) in van configuration. The root problem is that for at least the last 10 years Citroens (and DSs) are designed by Peugeot! Are later GC4Ps on the new, lighter, platform any better?
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by RichardW »

Old-Guy wrote: 20 Feb 2018, 12:16 Are later GC4Ps on the new, lighter, platform any better?


Let you know after Friday when the new one arrives :lol:

On a short test, it certainly felt smoother, but that was 5 up.
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by reef2k »

The dead steering was well documented in the early press reviews along with the crap suspension,so i don't think anything is wrong,it's just the way they are,unfortunately.
Found an invoice at around 60k for sealing a leaking injector,nothing else mentioned since,and i appear to have all bills/info for everything done until last service,so would appear ok.
A few times i have thought the clutch was slipping,but i think it's the turbo that cuts in quite early,maybe as low as 14-1500 rpm ,then i feel the sudden acceleration as if the clutch has fully disengaged ..does that make sense ? not sure how else to explain it.
i'm always easy on the clutch,doing as you suggest,so hope it lasts a while yet,as i'll not be doing many miles in it,only around 4k per year,so fingers crossed.
Oh,tyres are not a name i'm familiar with !
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

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Old-Guy wrote: 20 Feb 2018, 12:16 We too have a GC4P (2011 facelift model) - as a replacement for our much-missed S1 Xantia estate - and I'd agree with most of the above, though Goodyear Ultragrips on the front have quietened it a little. I won't say that buying it was a mistake, but it's been a big disappointment all round - sadly going back to a Xantia isn't an option for all the reasons that we reluctantly made the switch in the first place. Much of the problem is Citroen's desperate efforts to keep the weight down to meet Euro5 and still pass crash tests; minimal sound-proofing and many of the external panels are awfully flimsy. The springing is far too stiff with 2-up and no luggage - 7-up (4 adults and 3 children) and the back stuffed for a day on the beach transforms the ride even on crumbling Devon lanes, as does a big load (6 x 25Kg sacks) in van configuration. The root problem is that for at least the last 10 years Citroens (and DSs) are designed by Peugeot! Are later GC4Ps on the new, lighter, platform any better?


Probably unfare of us to compare with the Xantia or C5 as obviously the suspension isn't conventional,but they did set the bar high. I've got cheap tyres by the looks of it,but as you say,it may quieten the noise a little if using a good brand,but won't do anything for the awful ride. You would think the long wheel base would help a bit,but not that you'd notice,unless loaded up as you mention.
In the GP's defence,i should mention my wife's new VW Tigan,which is ridiculously choppy,shaking us from side to side on minor roads,and even made me feel a little sick,and i'd not felt car-sick for over 40 years. Like the GP,it's a totally different beast on a good surface but the Tigans road noise is more noticable,due to the wider tyres.
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Waiting for the first owner reports of the C5 Aircross with the new 'Hydraulic Cushions', It is taunted to be very comfortable....
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by reef2k »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 20 Feb 2018, 13:08 Waiting for the first owner reports of the C5 Aircross with the new 'Hydraulic Cushions', It is taunted to be very comfortable....



Won't bother me if it's good or bad,as i do very few miles,so can't justify wasting money on a new car,but may be interested in 8-10 yrs time :)
The wife won't be changing the Tigan for a while,but could be an option,although she loves the VW for some reason.
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It'll be too late in 10 years time - we'll all be riding batteries with anti-grav units or bicycles no doubt :roll:
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by reef2k »

BRING IT ON !! :)
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Re: Grand Picasso on poor roads

Post by Old-Guy »

reef2k wrote: 20 Feb 2018, 12:42 A few times i have thought the clutch was slipping,but i think it's the turbo that cuts in quite early,maybe as low as 14-1500 rpm ,then i feel the sudden acceleration as if the clutch has fully disengaged ..does that make sense ? not sure how else to explain it.
i'm always easy on the clutch,doing as you suggest,so hope it lasts a while yet,as i'll not be doing many miles in it,only around 4k per year,so fingers crossed.
Oh,tyres are not a name i'm familiar with !

You don't say what age your Picasso is. The 2011-15 1.6HDi is an 8V SOHC unit that I still find amazing. PSA's data sheet for this (DV6C) engine shows a torque curve climbing steeply from 230NM at 1,500 to peak at 270NM at 1,750 rpm, and staying above 240 to 2,400. With the close-ratio 6-speed box you just keep short-shifting your way up the box - it seems at bit weird at first and the size/weight of the car mean it's no great ball of fire but it storms up hills even top gear! Max power is 112hp at 3,600rpm but this is fairly academic except for high-speed Motorway overtaking.
The figures for the previous 16V 1.6HDi (DV6TED4) are 230NM at 1,500, 240NM at 1,750, c. 220NM at 2,800 but the torque curve falls progressively from the peak without the DV6C's plateau; max power 107hp at 4,000 rpm.

Tyres - on the Xantia, supple Goodyear winter tyres were not only much quieter than the summer Nexens but noticeably reduced bump/thump over pot-holes - that's why the Picasso is now wearing a pair of Goodyears on the front!

The vast majority of GC4Ps in the UK started life as Motability contracts. As a result, they should have been serviced annually for the first 3 years, but usually cheap fuel and tyres - mine had 4 different makes of tyre. It's definitely worth using a quality fuel to clean the supermarket gum from the fuel system and in my experience, using premium fuel (Shell V-Power) has, according to the trip computer, improved fuel consumption from about 44 to 45.5mpg.
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