Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by Paul-R »

Could be different design teams with one favouring the separate motors idea.

The X7, being based on the 407 underpinnings, would naturally follow the 407's wiper setup. Which makes me wonder how similar the motors are between the two.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by white exec »

The glories of the Citroën single wiper, BX et al.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Completely different designs Paul:
C5 X7 Wiper motors.PNG
407 wiper motors.PNG
C6 wiper motors.PNG
C5 X7 Wiper Motors407 Wiper MotorsC6 Wiper Motors
From what I can tell just from the diagrams, the X7 has what seem to have few mechanical parts in comparison with the other 2 - and would be newer of course as the 407 run was from 2003 to 2010.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by Grandmrc »

Hi all,

I arrived here (and joined) as I am experiencing problems with these wiper motors as we speak. It is presently in the garage and I am awaiting a call to see if the fitting of a second motor (Passenger side) will solve the problem.

I have purchased both sides (Both used so another potential problem???) as the driver side (RHD) failed to bring the wipers back to life. I started thinking a fuse had gone and am now almost £300 in (Plus garage labour charges to come, but they are a reasonable outfit) for bloody windscreen wipers!!!

It is my first Citroen and have had the car c. 3 years now, and to be fair it's been very reliable, but the wipers just didn't come on one morning a couple of weeks back hence the beginning of this saga. Garage reckons there is no way to test if the units are working when off the car, is that correct? They have had an auto-elec check out (after the first motor replacement) and says that the passenger side at fault and 'full of water'.

Any advice would be welcome and apologies if I have not read the full list of comments on the topic. I will update if the replacement is successful of course, cheers.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The wiper units are a master - slave relationship. You really need it to be diagnosed with Diagbox because that should inform you which one is at fault. Although each motor has its own ECU, the driver is the master ECU and talks to the passenger ECU. So although the passenger side ECU controls the passenger wiper, if the driver's side ECU is faulty it can affect how the passenger side ECU operates. I hope this is makes sense.

Water ingress is the usual culprit. There was a recall for these - but only within a certain VIN range. If you post it up I can check for you.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by Grandmrc »

Hi Marc,

Already did that check and not in the zone so to speak....DAMN! (Registered July 2008). Update on my issue is that the 'new' motors failed to solve so trying to get my money back on those and got the garage to order a new passenger side and fit first to see if that solves it, if not driver side will have to go on too.

If it ends up being 2 new motors and I fail to get my cash back on the salvage parts, plus the auto-elec and garage fees I could be looking at a bag o'sand for windscreen wipers........I would never have believed it if someone else told me.

Also popped in to see a Citroen specialist garage to see if anything missing from the work to date and they said it's simply a motor issue if all power etc. in place, which it is, hence the new motor route.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I had one go but I can't remember now if it was the passenger or the driver side - but my wipers were making rude gestures to oncoming cars, that's for sure. Had mine done under warranty and now ensure copious amounts of zinc grease are liberally coated on the units.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by sparksie »

Hi all.
The C5 I posted about, a few weeks back, has been repaired and is back on the road.
I'll be seeing it shortly, to investigate the tail lights, which have still not been sorted.
However, the wipers have now packed up too.
Apparently the motors were replaced under warranty, last year, though I don't know by whom, nor where the replacements were sourced from.
Can anyone tell me is there a procedure for timing them. I plan to do a BSI reset, because I felt the starter was slow, last time I saw it, and I understand the C5 is more sensitive to voltage issues than most cars. Assuming this doesn't solve it and I end up changing motors, I need to put the arms back in the correct alignment. Any tips welcome, as the owner has been through the mill a bit and I'd really like to solve it for her, without her needing a mortgage to pay me.
Thanks guys
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Sparksie - what C5 are you talking about? This thread is fort an X7, (MK III). If this is the case with your friend, then no, you cannot do anything about the timing, each motor has a separate ECU and they are linked together in a Master - Slave configuration and are completely electronically controlled - there are no timings to be set.

On the windscreen, if you look carefully near to where the wiper blades rest, there are small black markings marked on the windscreen that indicate the rest position of the wiper blade. This is the position the blades need to be at when refitting.

As for your previous spares and as per my previous posts on this, be aware that it may only be one electronic unit is faulty - and NOT always the one that may appear to be acting up because of the relationship between the motors. I.e. if the passenger side one is playing up, it could be the right hand master unit that is faulty and relaying the wrong commands to the slave in the left hand wiper unit, and not the actual left hand motor that is at fault So changing both may result in replacing a perfectly good unit for no reason, hence why a diagnostic is recommended to identify the faulty unit and money is not wasted.

Wiper Motor ECU parts for a Right Hand Drive X7:
6405LE (Left side)
6405LA (Right side)

Caution! Always remember to 'Park' the wipers on an X7 before attempting to remove the wiper arms! Switch ignition on, then off, then press one downward flick on the wiper control stalk (right hand stalk), This should park the wiper arms in the upright position for removal. Failure to do this can result in the bonnet paintwork being damaged and scratched if you try and lift the wiper arm when they are not parked.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by sparksie »

Thanks Marc
That's what I needed to know.
I was terrified I'd fit the arms, turn the wipers on and find them wiping the air beside the pillars, or worse still, the bonnet.
These ones are possibly not faulty, as the battery is goosed.
I did the BSI reset and got the tail lights working, only to have them stop again when I started the engine.
Frankly, I'm surprised it starts. The lowest cranking voltage I saw was 7.2V. That's almost low enough for the solenoid to drop out owner and certainly low enough to upset an ecu. It turns very slowly and I didn't think it was going to catch, but it did and the owner says it's always sounded like that. I've sent her to get a new battery, with strict instructions to go for the higher spec one, if she's offered two types.
I'll BSI reset it again and see whether the wipers behave.
If not, the next step will be to check with a dealer to see if the recall affects this car and, if it does, whether the work was carried out.
Assuming that all goes badly and I'm lumbered with fixing it, I guess it'll be time for me to have another go at installing Lexia
Wish me luck...
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, good luck - and always check the obvious as you have done with the battery. Getting that replaced is a good place to start and you may find it has cured some niggles. Just make sure that you allow plenty of time for the ECUs to sleep before removing, and again after reconnecting the battery for them to wake up again.

Let us know how it goes. :-D
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by sparksie »

Waiting with baited breath.
Last I heard they were going to a tyre bay, to see could they get a battery.
I'm not available for much of tomorrow, so it could well be Monday before I get another look at it.
I seriously doubt the tyre people will have done the BSI correctly, so that will be my first move, whenever I get access.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by sparksie »

Well, a half hour flying visit to the car today revealed that it was not behaving at all, with faults in practically all the user interfaces, from lights, through entertainment, to the dreaded wiper problem.
The owner has left it with my neighbour and gone home feeling the car is attacking her.
In short, as far as I can tell in the time I had, a BSI reset has sorted all bar the wipers.
The wipers don't park in the service position when asked, with only the drivers one moving at all. That jerks up and down a few degrees several times, then gives up. With ignition on, it does that when the wipers are switched on, but keeps doing it until the ignition is turned off again.
Hopefully I can get to it in dayli9ght tomorrow. I'll try unplugging and reseating the connectors and maybe leaving the passenger one disconnected.
If the car works in every way except the passenger wiper, I'll be in a stronger position when informing her about the price of motors.
With luck I might have got Lexia working and be able to tell her exactly what the problem is.
Is anybody reconditioning these yet?
I'd like to box the bad one(s) up and send it off, to be replaced by one with a guarantee, given the prices being asked for used ones!
Thanks all
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Limited success with repairs as once the water damage is done it’s really kaput. Part of the throw away society now. Citroen will onlynreplace the motor unit of course, as when mine went.

However all that other stuff shouldn’t really be happening and to be having all those gremlins may be indicative of a BDInornengine fusebox provlem......

Anyway see what you get from the diagnostic and pop up any codes here.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

Post by sparksie »

Hi Marc
I got a chance to play with it, in between jobs, today.
What I got was:-
FF14 Slave motor operation fault
FF1A Fault in communication on the KIN between the two windscreen wiper motors
FF1B Wipers system mechanical jamming fault.
In case it helps, the VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].
My gut instinct is drawing me to the second code as being most probable.
I don't believe the last one, particularly as I can see there's no conflict between the wipers and I think the controller is making assumptions based on the probability that the slave motor is not parked and there's a blade half way up the screen.
Am I right in thinking the "slave" is the nearside (passenger's) wiper?
Also, wouldn't a "fault in communication" most likely result in a failure to operate?
If so, where do you think is the most likely place for communication to break down?
Cheers
Sparksie

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