Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

Not the same rack (motor oriented differently), but the same manufacturer and the torque convertor and principles look exactly the same;
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

And here's another video showing similar system with it split down and on bench test;


Different manufacturer but the principle all look exactly the same and at least I now understand how it's meant to work.
B-)
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

And having watched that and then back to my original test video's, pretty sure I know exactly what's wrong with the current rack - the torque sensor is either misaligned, or out of calibration. 8-) 8-)
If you look at mine, with no load on the steering, it's showing negative torque instead of zero. And the measured input torque in one direction is higher than in the other.
So yeah, now just to get it off and see what I can find...
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So back to the torque sensor as suggested some posts ago and I can't see this as a separate part, so back to replacing the rack then it seems Iain - assuming you can get the thing out now!
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

There's more to it than this picture suggests (more detail will go in the profile thread of the car) but, here's the end result complete with one part of the persuaders;
Image

:-k something missing here...
Image
:-D

Some more pics of the crack;
Image
Image

Having now seen it off the car, the whole thing looks like it can be disassembled quite simply into all it's constituent parts.
And the motor/torque sensor part does actually also look pretty much exactly like the Prius column in the first youtube video I posted (not surprising considering both are KOYO/JTEK columns).

So I'm pretty convinced that with another working rack from 'any other' C2, I could swap the guts of the rack/pinion section into a new casting, swap the torque sensor and retain the same motor. Which should mean I end up with the correct rack setup for the car? [-o<
nb: Have confirmed by part number that yes, the car is fitted with the rocking-horse poo rack that service.citroen says it should be...

Chopping a bit of the car loom out of a breaker C2 would also let me bench test it (connect +ve and ground to the ECU removed from the car).

The challenge I think though, is setting up the torque sensor correctly without a suitable test rig...


(different kind of torque sensor in those two video's but I expect the principles of testing/setting up are the same?)
Last edited by wurlycorner on 07 Apr 2018, 00:24, edited 2 times in total.
--
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

:-k
wonder if I could slave the rack and ECU into the car and use LEXIA to monitor the torque reading while I fiddle with it?
Not sure how I would achieve that though...
From memory, the steering ecu seems to need the engine running before it adds assistance and without the sub-frame in place, you can't run the engine.
:-k
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

Picked up a spare (wrong part number but as earlier, I think that might not matter for the parts I need off it);
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-C2-s ... Sw1zhacL3S
Nearest to me and pretty cheap.

Strangely I can't find this particular rack on service.citroen (marked 60DHSV) listed for either a C2, or a C3... So god knows what's going on there :lol:
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That isn't a PSA ref Iain, but from the link you supplied I discerned the part number as: 9682221780

Here's one that looks in good nick and the same part number as your original (4000TZ) - £78!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C2-V ... 2901152131

Edit: Did I say "Good Nick" - just put my glasses on and zoomed the image.... :rofl2:
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 07 Apr 2018, 14:59 That isn't a PSA ref Iain,
Yeah - the PSA part number (the 6 digit number as given by service.citroen) isn't anywhere at all on any of these racks.
If you refer back to my original post, the only link between part info given on service.citroen and an identifying number on rack itself, is the "60DHxx" number - that's given in the description against the part on service/citroen and is replicated on the sticker on the motor.
Here's one that looks in good nick and the same part number as your original (4000TZ) - £78!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C2-V ... 2901152131


Yes thanks for posting up. I actually saw that one yesterday myself and contacted the seller.
I'm very dubious unfortunately.

It says it's off a 1.6 VTS. If you refer back to my original post, according to service.citroen the 4000TZ wasn't fitted to anything other than a Loeb - the VTS uses a different rack, so it needs more confirmation for me...

In the pictures of that item, the sticker that gives the only useful number I could use for direct reference ("60DHxx") is missing - what's left is remnants of the oem's production line sticker that lives underneath it (and even if that could give useful info, it looks indiscernible).

I contacted the seller last night to ask them where they had got the part number from and/or if they could supply the VIN of the vehicle it came off, so that I could corroborate.
They responded this morning to say they have a system where they look up to get the manufacturer's part number, which doesn't really answer the question... Unless that 'system' is service.citroen then IMO it's not reliable info at all when it comes to this.

It's a decent price, but it's some way away so would have to be posted. I want to get some testing done this weekend so I decided to pick up the local one and see where that gets me. If it's no joy, I'll just sell this one on and try my luck with that one.

When I collected this one today, the breakers commented that most C2 racks they test are faulty so they don't sell them - which was actually encouraging to me, that this one might have working sensors etc.
--
Iain

1x '85 CX GTi Turbo s1 (metallic blue)
2x '85 CX GTi Turbo s2 t1 (metallic silver & grey)
'88 CX GTi Turbo s2 T2 (metallic light blue)
CX DTR T2 Safari (silver)
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