C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I would suggest that if you obtain the mechanical key code from the dealer (who very kindly provided your last code free), then the seller in my last post can also cut the key to that code for you. They don't mention about charging extra to cut it, so may be worth a shot or contact them to see if it includes the cutting.
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

After reading the spec of the key posted up by Marc, I did an e-bay search for ID46 transponder chips. I have found several, all around £5. I wonder if it might be worth buying one such chip, and then seeing if it can fit into the case of the remote to the right? If it fits, might it then be able to be coded to the car?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Virgin-ID ... SwAPVZDhOZ
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by teuski »

...but in the description it states that it's a 433MHz one?
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I do not disagree with that. However, from the description of the chip it does show it is for various PSA vehicles, including the C4. It could be worth contacting and asking the seller if it is compatible with your C4. If it is, it could get you a remote key working (and, if you buy the one Marc posted up, you could have two keys with remote functionality).
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That's always an option james - but there is the hassle factor to consider, so I think that is one for the OP to consider :wink:
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by teuski »

Getting that chip won't help me locking and unlocking the car from a distance, even if i put it in that remote which won't work.
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I was thinking that, should the BSi accept the chip I linked to, it would then (assuming the circuit board works) be possible to pair the remote to the car, as now the car would be prepared to accept the keyfob unit has the 'authority' to communicate with the car.
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by teuski »

Hell Razor5543 wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 23:01 I was thinking that, should the BSi accept the chip I linked to, it would then (assuming the circuit board works) be possible to pair the remote to the car, as now the car would be prepared to accept the keyfob unit has the 'authority' to communicate with the car.

I tried that by putting my working chip inside the chinese remote without success.

Speaking of the older design where the immo chip is separate from the electronics of the remote control, as is the case with older C5's and with that chinese remote i got, doubt that the immo chip and the remote electronics communicate in any way. It just that putting a key with a legit chip inside the ignition allows the system to start syncing remotes.

Can't really say what's the case with the original C4 key where the chip is on the PCB, but as someone noted it seems ot have no physical connection to the remote circuitry.

The Diagbox procedure for remote pairing instructs to turn the ignition on off and remove tge key, wait 1 minute, then turn it on with some key, press the locking button of a remote for 5 seconds and then remove the key. It doesn't actually state that the key in the ignition has to be the SAME that has the remote in question. After doing that with all remotes it says to wait 30 seconds and then they all will work.
It also states that if a remote button is pressed when the remote is desynchronised (when is that? During those 30 seconds?) the BSI goes to antiscanning mode for one minute, preventing resynchronisation.
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by xantia_v6 »

teuski wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 05:24 It also states that if a remote button is pressed when the remote is desynchronised (when is that? During those 30 seconds?) the BSI goes to antiscanning mode for one minute, preventing resynchronisation.

In this context synchronisation and de-synchronisation refer to the rolling-code sequence from the remote. In order to prevent the car being opened by someone scanning the signal from the remote, the remote uses a different code each time a button of pressed (there are millions of codes in the sequence). The BSI rejects any code that it has recently seen, and rejects any code that is too far in the future compared to the last valid code it saw. These rejected but otherwise valid codes are 'de-synchronised' After remote battery change, or if the remote buttons are pressed too many times out of range of the car, all button press signals appear to be de-synchronised, and the synchronisation procedure is used to tell the BSI where the remote is in its rolling-code sequence os that it will begin to accept he codes again.

So the programming of the fob/bsi tells the BSI the identity of the remote, and synchronisation tells the BSI where the remote fob is in the rolling-code sequence.
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by GiveMeABreak »

teuski wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 05:24 The Diagbox procedure for remote pairing instructs to turn the ignition on off and remove tge key, wait 1 minute, then turn it on with some key, press the locking button of a remote for 5 seconds and then remove the key. It doesn't actually state that the key in the ignition has to be the SAME that has the remote in question. After doing that with all remotes it says to wait 30 seconds and then they all will work.
It also states that if a remote button is pressed when the remote is desynchronised (when is that? During those 30 seconds?) the BSI goes to antiscanning mode for one minute, preventing resynchronisation.
Yes, the process you are referring to Teuski, is the synchronisation part not the programming part and will have NO effect on the fobs if they have not been programmed first.

This is the official resynchronisation process for High Frequency Remotes which is what I think you were referring to:
  1. Switch off the ignition and take out the key
  2. Wait 1 minute without pressing the buttons of any remote control
  3. Place the key of the high frequency remote control to be synchronised in position "ignition+"
  4. Within 10 seconds, press the locking button for 5 seconds
  5. Switch off the ignition and take out the key
  6. Repeat the procedure with the other keys from point N°3, otherwise move on to point N°7
  7. Wait 30 seconds, the remote controls are synchronised
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by teuski »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 09:56
teuski wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 05:24 The Diagbox procedure for remote pairing instructs to turn the ignition on off and remove tge key, wait 1 minute, then turn it on with some key, press the locking button of a remote for 5 seconds and then remove the key. It doesn't actually state that the key in the ignition has to be the SAME that has the remote in question. After doing that with all remotes it says to wait 30 seconds and then they all will work.
It also states that if a remote button is pressed when the remote is desynchronised (when is that? During those 30 seconds?) the BSI goes to antiscanning mode for one minute, preventing resynchronisation.
Yes, the process you are referring to Teuski, is the synchronisation part not the programming part and will have NO effect on the fobs if they have not been programmed first.

Yes, i know. But to me it looks like the programming part has nothing to do with the remote part, just the immo chip.

If it did, then what would happen if i had a working remote with a detachable immo chip and i took the chip off? Would The remote still work?

I still can't see a relation between the engine immobilization with the chip and the locking of doors with the remote control.
You make it sound that a new remote has to be programmed before it can be synchronised, but when does this programming happen for, let's say, a new remote from eBay?
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by Paul-R »

Hell Razor5543 wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 20:48 After reading the spec of the key posted up by Marc, I did an e-bay search for ID46 transponder chips.
Are ID46 chips used in a 2006 C4? I haven't been able to find one in my X7 fob, which is why I want a spare to destructively examine. They were certainly used in the 2001 Xsara and 2003 C5 and I even got as far as buying a virgin ID46 chip for my C5, Sadly it never got fitted as my wife tidied it away and it didn't come to light until a couple of months ago!

EDIT
I'd also like to look at a non-remote locking key fob. That would be interesting as only parts necessary for immobilisation would be present. Were such things ever standard issue?
Last edited by Paul-R on 19 Jan 2018, 13:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by Paul-R »

teuski wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 12:26Yes, i know. But to me it looks like the programming part has nothing to do with the remote part, just the immo chip.
That's correct. Two separate circuits.

teuski wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 12:26If it did, then what would happen if i had a working remote with a detachable immo chip and i took the chip off? Would The remote still work?
It should do. This was why I was asking you to try the pairing of the new remote with the original key in the ignition earlier on.

teuski wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 12:26I still can't see a relation between the engine immobilization with the chip and the locking of doors with the remote control.
The remote circuitry can only be synchronised to the car if the key part (with paired immo chip) is in the ignition and recognised by the car. From then on the remote will work from a distance.

teuski wrote: 19 Jan 2018, 12:26You make it sound that a new remote has to be programmed before it can be synchronised, but when does this programming happen for, let's say, a new remote from eBay?
I'm assuming that the procedure is the same as the Mk1 C5/Xsara then it's part of the pairing of keys process using a Lexia/Diagbox. I asked Marc earlier on if there was a published procedure and he said that you're guided through the process by the Lexia/Diagbox. It's during this process that the virgin chip is written to.
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Remote Control

Use of the remote control (Locking / Unlocking / Lights / Tailgate etc. necessitates matching with the vehicle).
The coded message sent to the car receiver by each remote control is composed of the following codes:
  • A fixed code linked to the key
  • A rolling code matched with the vehicle’s receiver
  • A code corresponding to the action to be performed
  • A code corresponding to the condition of charge of the batteries
Synchronisation (not the same as Programming)
  • The rolling code of the remote control is modified each time the remote control is used.
  • A small offset between the rolling code expected by the receiver and that transmitted by the remote control is tolerated (in cases of where use of the remote control is outside the range of the receiver for example).
  • In the event of this tolerance being exceeded it is necessary to resynchronise the remote control.
  • The tolerance is of 255 offsets.
This is where you follow the resynchronisation procedure I referred to earlier:
Key Resynchronisation Procedure
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Re: C4 '06 - Programming new remotes & keys

Post by teuski »

I ordered an uncut remote key similar to that ebsy one from here in finland, 72€ wirh postage. We'll see how it works...
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