Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

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PresidentBacon
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by PresidentBacon » 28 Jun 2018, 11:44

Hey guys I've been following this thread for a while with the exact same issues as you're getting, same error codes and my mechanic couldn't find a fault. I recently got the timing belt and pulleys done from an independant garage, since the day I got my car back I had problems. If I hit the rev limiter the car would jump in limp mode and get on screen 'Engine Management System Faulty' due to just having the timing belt changed I knew it was that. The garage who did the timing belt, pulleys, water pump and thermostat checked it all over 6 times in total and said there is no timing issues at all and were adament it wasn't the timing but I wasn't so convinced.

I bit the bullet and took it to my local Citroen dealer and asked them to check the timing of the engine, belt and pulleys. It was off by 4 teeth so Citroen corrected it and the car runs flawlessly.
When doing a timing belt and pulley change on the C4 VTS is requires a specific locking tool so make sure you have the right one!
The manager at the Citroen dealer also said this issue can also be caused by a faulty camshaft sprocket (part # 0805j3) could be a factor in these issues too, luckily for me it was just the timing, but I'd put my finger on it to say it's one of those 2 issues for you guys.

Citroen charged £400 for the repairs to be done, billed it to the garage who did the work to begin with.

TL:DR - Timing out / faulty camshaft sprocket #0805j3
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Fake Concern » 29 Jun 2018, 20:20

Thanks for that information PresidentBacon, I've booked my car in for a new belt and I will hold you responsible if it doesn't fix it (haha).
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Fake Concern » 05 Jul 2018, 19:30

Tom changed the cam belt today and told me the timing was not out, but the tension was slack and the water pump was leaking. This makes me think that it has never had the belt changed!!! My reason for this is that a couple of years ago I tried to buy the car, but the water pump was leaking and the belt was overdue a change. When i bought it although it wasn't leaking badly, coolant still did go down over a couple of weeks. The service book had a dubious looking stamp and hand written "belt and water pump changed" with the date no reciept was included. I didn't get a chance to try a run to the red line on the way home as it was rush hour and all in 30 limit. On Saturday I'm attending the Fench Car Show, so I should get the chance to rag it on the way there as I'll leave early morning!
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by daviemck2006 » 05 Jul 2018, 20:33

I think the guy who owned the car, who was not the guy I sold it to, seemed to be a bit of a chancer. I believed him when he said the belt and pump were changed, but with hindsight, and what you just said, I think he just drove it and did absolutely no maintainence whatsoever. I think he also said he put on two new tyres, but if I remember correctly the tyres on it did not look particularly new or decent makes. It may well have been new to it pre worn tyres! I hope that sorts LEZ out, as she is a lovely car.
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Fake Concern » 05 Jul 2018, 21:50

daviemck2006 wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 20:33
I think the guy who owned the car, who was not the guy I sold it to, seemed to be a bit of a chancer. I believed him when he said the belt and pump were changed, but with hindsight, and what you just said, I think he just drove it and did absolutely no maintainence whatsoever. I think he also said he put on two new tyres, but if I remember correctly the tyres on it did not look particularly new or decent makes. It may well have been new to it pre worn tyres! I hope that sorts LEZ out, as she is a lovely car.

It is a lovely car Davie!

The chap who claimed to have the belt done is not the one you picked the car up from nor seemingly the one who you sold it to either, but the one who put all the strange brackets etc on it and offered it for sale, but wouldn't sell it to me!
Fingers crossed it was the slack belt causing the problems.
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Cutac » 05 Jul 2018, 22:34

Did you give intake resonator delete a go?
I've been reading on c4owners that it improves low end torque without changing rest of the curve so I gave it a try. Car now sounds quite mean and aggressive, but I'm not sure about power, it seems like it went down, but maybe it's because of the noise.

Got any info on that subject? :)
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by daviemck2006 » 05 Jul 2018, 22:41

I hope that has sorted it Peter. You know i enjoyed driving that car, but in reality it was a bit frantic for me. I think had it been a 2.0hdi vts with a remap it would have been more for me. Im not a drive flat out kind of guy, much prefer diesel torque slogging it out. But then the 2.0 petrol hitting the red revs was highly addictive and great fun.
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Fake Concern » 05 Jul 2018, 22:50

Cutac wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 22:34
Did you give intake resonator delete a go?
I've been reading on c4owners that it improves low end torque without changing rest of the curve so I gave it a try. Car now sounds quite mean and aggressive, but I'm not sure about power, it seems like it went down, but maybe it's because of the noise.

Got any info on that subject? :)

I've read all sorts of conflicting stories about the resonator on both C4 180 and the 206 180 & not sure I could put up with the induction noise for not much or even no gain in power. Same reason I never got the induction kit (GSR or K&N). I think Citroen/Pug put a lot of effort (money) into the resonator most likely for a reason!
daviemck2006 wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 22:41
I hope that has sorted it Peter. You know i enjoyed driving that car, but in reality it was a bit frantic for me. I think had it been a 2.0hdi vts with a remap it would have been more for me. Im not a drive flat out kind of guy, much prefer diesel torque slogging it out. But then the 2.0 petrol hitting the red revs was highly addictive and great fun.

I understand the idea of a diseasel VTS, but I love the way I can keep going when other drivers are having to change up!
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Fake Concern » 05 Jul 2018, 22:59

Cutac wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 22:34
Did you give intake resonator delete a go?
I've been reading on c4owners that it improves low end torque without changing rest of the curve so I gave it a try. Car now sounds quite mean and aggressive, but I'm not sure about power, it seems like it went down, but maybe it's because of the noise.

Got any info on that subject? :)

Have a look at this article

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/techni ... rtant.html
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Cutac
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Cutac » 05 Jul 2018, 23:29

Fake Concern wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 22:50
I've read all sorts of conflicting stories about the resonator on both C4 180 and the 206 180 & not sure I could put up with the induction noise for not much or even no gain in power. Same reason I never got the induction kit (GSR or K&N). I think Citroen/Pug put a lot of effort (money) into the resonator most likely for a reason!
Fake Concern wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 22:59
Have a look at this article

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/techni ... rtant.html


I've seen that article and because of it I decided to leave the resonator alone. But then I stumbled upon c4owners topics in which many users claim that resonator delete improves low end torque while not "damaging" rest of the curve.
That's why I removed the resonator to see for myself, but I can't see much. I kind of like that new noise(although, a bit too loud for my taste), but I can't really tell if I've gained any power, seems more like I've lost some.

Will be measuring times tomorrow to compare.
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Cutac » 07 Jul 2018, 14:35

Did some timed runs - resonator removal made my car slower.

Just for info so someone doesn't go trough trouble of removing it and then refitting it :)
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Fake Concern » 07 Jul 2018, 20:35

Cutac wrote:
07 Jul 2018, 14:35
Did some timed runs - resonator removal made my car slower.

Just for info so someone doesn't go trough trouble of removing it and then refitting it :)

Thanks for letting us know that!

I drove over 400 miles today, but didn't really get a chance to try out the red line roulette as first thing in the morning on the way to FCS, I didn't really have time to keep stopping if the car went into limp and on the way back it was far too busy. I do think the car seemed to perform well though and also got about 2MPG more than on recent simillar trips so we shall see.....
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Cutac » 08 Jul 2018, 01:55

Fingers crossed that it would work now.
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Fake Concern » 12 Jul 2018, 20:45

Update

I have now tried the VTS up to the red line several times and the good news is that it has not yet cut out and seems to be accelerating the way I’d expect of a healthy VTS 180. Now the bad news........ As I took it to the red line in one of the Ahem higher gears there was an almighty bang and I thought the engine had blown up! This was not the case the front undertray had come undone, turned under the car and was scraping on the ground. I slowed down and as I steered off the road onto the grass it caught under the wheels and ripped both wheel arch liners off! Oh great!
When i got home and looked around the car, I noticed that the exhaust tailpipe was touching and had melted a hole in the bumper. Looked under the car, the exhaust pipe weld has broken around the centre box allowing it droop in the middle. One step forward two back!
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Cutac
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Re: Help diagnosing C4 VTS problems (Ex Davie LEZ VTS 180)

Post by Cutac » 12 Jul 2018, 23:16

Jesus, I'm sorry to hear that, but the engine is at least alright!

But you won't believe me now. Last Wednesday(I think) I was on a motorway(driving a bit quickly) and undertray(part that's connected to the front bumper) had cracked and it burst in a million pieces and got stuck in a way that it caused wheel arch liners to break and touch both front tyres. That resulted in melted(!) arch liners and also tyres were coated with plastic.
And while mending that, I managed to severely damage the sill...

VTS's don't seem to like this time of the year :mrgreen:
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