Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

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daviemck2006
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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by daviemck2006 » 14 Dec 2017, 19:01

Ok, mine is an XUD but its on 214000 miles doing 350 to 400 miles a week mostly stop start with no problen. I have in the past driven hdi engined taxis, one north of 500,000 and still original engine and box. I owned a ulysee 2.0 jtd (hdi) over 250k. I would keep the car you have if you still like it, it should do many more miles yet.

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CitroJim
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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by CitroJim » 15 Dec 2017, 06:31

daviemck2006 wrote:
14 Dec 2017, 19:01
I would keep the car you have if you still like it, it should do many more miles yet.


Yes, agreed. Always best the devil you know ;)

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by dave_xsara » 15 Dec 2017, 11:28

I still like it and plan to keep it.
The rear axle bangs and clatters as well but I've got axle mounts to fit to cure this.

Hopefully Final Questions:
  • Other than a squeak/creak are there any other signs that the rear axle bearings need replacing? Looking for things to check, measure, etc. (e.g. I could tell that the front needed doing as the gap between top of tyre and wheel arch was less that in old photos - showing that it was sagging)
  • Is there any harm in driving it on if there are just squeaks/creaks (which seem to be intermittent in their loudness - weather related?)?
  • Am I being silly by replacing front suspension and rear suspension mounts, but not refreshing the rear axle (which has not been touch since new (17yrs &181k)?
  • What is the camber on the rear wheels? I've got to get front aligned after this work. Could I ask them to measure the camber and if it is out then I know I'll need an axle swap.
  • Can not replacing the bearings/axle result in a major failure, or does it just increase the camber on the tyres increasing wear?

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by dave_xsara » 15 Dec 2017, 20:22

Just discovered this thread from a pug forum.
Read from post #13 onwards :(

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=167205


From reading around other Pug/Citroen forums there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with refurbished axles from a number of suppliers.

From looking on IM Axles Facebook page, they do these in a big way. Maybe the volume means there will be duds along the way and these will be the ones reported. Although there are a number of comments about the quality of bearings (they say they use SKF - I know nothing of them) and seals they use.
However, when I see the negative reviews they get on FB in their defence they reply the same day to get it resolved/replaced.

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CitroJim
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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by CitroJim » 16 Dec 2017, 06:31

SKF are a well-known, long established and respected maker of bearings...

Just remember with all reviews, especially on FB and in some forums, there will always be unhappy people who like to make a noise and fuss for very trivial reasons... Sad people known as 'keyboard warriors' and a pox on society...

Speak direct to the company and then go with gut feelings.

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by dave_xsara » 18 Dec 2017, 09:54

Thanks - I'll get the axle checked over the Christmas break and take it from there.

Can anyone provide answers to the above questions?

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by miked » 20 Dec 2017, 00:04

Good questions, which I'm not qualified to answer. My back-end went through loads of creaking (No childish replies please). It was mainly in dry weather. As soon as I took it to a very trusted mechanic (Known him over 25 years. I took it in for rear calipers a month ago, which I could have changed but I knew I needed someone with a flaring tool and a roll of brake pipe) he said it was shot. Low on both sides but I can't see any (OK, maybe a very little) sign of camber change. Even if I didn't trust him, I can tell something is wrong, as it just isn't the same as when I bought it in 2003.

I have just ordered an axle from IMAxles which should be here in the next couple of days. Hopefully get it fitted this weekend or over Christmas week. Obviously, I won't be able to say anything about the long-term quality but my mechanic down the road who has fitted many low mileage and reconditioned axles/torsion bars to various cars will know if it looks right. Price was £150 + VAT = £180 + delivery ended up £205. It might not go down well (if IMAxles see this) but my friendly mechanic is good at talking straight and got a whole £5 discount off as he is trade (Every little helps!) I'll update this when we get it fitted.

I'm not going to ramble on again about my car, I'll resurrect a thread In the blogs section about how it is.

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by dave_xsara » 20 Dec 2017, 23:45

Hi miked,

Oh that is interesting news. Please keep me updated on this as I may well end up following a similar path once I get it checked over.
Honestly, I'm trying to avoid it unless absolutely necessary as it is marginal if the car is really worth it - althoguh the front suspension has been rebuilt!

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by dave_xsara » 20 Dec 2017, 23:50

Just been thinking - if I put my mechanics stethoscope against the axle bearing I should be able to tell if it was fubar.
Not quite sure yet how I would get sufficient oscillation in the trailing arm to detect any rumbling - any ideas other than get someone to try and push/pull the wheel vertically?

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by 411514 » 21 Dec 2017, 09:44

dave_xsara wrote:
20 Dec 2017, 23:50
Just been thinking - if I put my mechanics stethoscope against the axle bearing I should be able to tell if it was fubar.
Not quite sure yet how I would get sufficient oscillation in the trailing arm to detect any rumbling - any ideas other than get someone to try and push/pull the wheel vertically?
To me it seems clear that you have already diagnosed the issue as the trailing arm bearings, and the accepted fix seems to be replacement of the beam unit. I think any further detective work will be wasted.

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by daviemck2006 » 21 Dec 2017, 15:16

If the front suspension is rebuilt, and the rest of the car is ok i would replace the axle and you know everything is good. You could go spend £500 on something else and it needs heaps of stuff doing. And if you have the axle off to replace the mounts I think it would be a bit silly to put back on the old axle unless its proven without doubt that it is ok.

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by miked » 21 Dec 2017, 20:28

dave_xsara wrote:
20 Dec 2017, 23:45
Hi miked,

Oh that is interesting news. Please keep me updated on this as I may well end up following a similar path once I get it checked over.
Honestly, I'm trying to avoid it unless absolutely necessary as it is marginal if the car is really worth it - althoguh the front suspension has been rebuilt!


I will let you know how it goes. I'm currently also trying to see the bigger picture with my car. To me, it's a keeper. My back suspension never had any real knocks such as you describe, but I can relate to the creaks and groans. And it just didn't feel right driving it. My new axle is still in its bubble wrap until we get a chance to finish the front end after changing the clutch and steering rack etc. Then the car needs turned around on the lift before we tackle the back end. I'll not ramble on here as this thread is all about rear axles (I've updated a thread in the blog section) and I'll try to get some pictures at the weekend.

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by andy5 » 21 Dec 2017, 23:18

I dont know how similar they are, but my old BX eventually developed negative camber so bad the inside top of the tyre was rubbing the wheelarch, and clunky at times.

I don't know what the real mileage was then, as someone had clocked it, probably 250 to 300,000 miles

The Citroen specialists down the road looked at it and changed just the bearings, rather than the whole axle.

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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by dave_xsara » 26 Dec 2017, 22:33

I got the car up on the lift today and had a look at the rear axle bearings.

Driver Side (Rear facing)
DS Rear Face.jpg
Driver Side (Front facing)
DS Front Face.jpg
Passenger Side (Rear facing)
PS Rear Face.jpg
Surprisingly, it's the drivers side that looks worse. Doesn't look too bad, does it? When car was on ground the gaps were not any more pronounced.
I suppose that this would not be causing the banging noise and they would be the mounts causing that - got a full set of them to resolve this.

I also pulled out the crud guard on the PS rear disc as it was fouling. I'll remove it totally when I go fix the axle.
Also, stuck in a side light in DS. Bit of a pain, but not as bad as the PS to work on.

Last thing was to try and fix the creak in the door. Removed pins and covered in copper grease and retightened. Still creaking so must be the check strap. Looks like a replacement required unless someone here can tell me how to fix the strap? Is the correct fix to replace the bracket and pin with Bracket & Pin
Last edited by dave_xsara on 27 Dec 2017, 15:46, edited 2 times in total.

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Paul-R
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Re: Xsara Squeaking/Creaking Rear suspension

Post by Paul-R » 26 Dec 2017, 23:26

No photos showing for me. Are these (supposed to be) uploaded here or have you linked to a hosting site?