Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

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crapday69
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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by crapday69 » 08 Nov 2017, 20:00

My C5 2012 has the sports button as well (as did the 2007 C4).

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demag
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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by demag » 09 Nov 2017, 12:24

I once fancied a Nemo with this box but when looking on Autotrader etc. I noticed that nearly all cars using this type of box be they Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat whatever had done very low mileages. I know occasionally it's possible to hit on a one owner low mileage car, but not hundreds of them! The same models with a standard manual box were doing normal average miles. And looking online there were loads of horror stories about them. Steer clear I think.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by crapday69 » 10 Nov 2017, 08:10

I'd buy another one no problems if I had too. As a matter of fact, if I never got my car back after it was a cat n write off, I'd have went out and bought the same car again.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by renagade » 10 Nov 2017, 11:00

Hi Guy;s
Yes I had problems with the egs6 gear box. It came down to the fact the return pipe on the actuator was split and I was driving about with no oil in the actuator and that did the little actuators in. Now after £2200 later with the new actuator bank fitted ( Citroen UK Doncaster ) it drives very smoothly and provided you are not a boy racer it would drive OK. Yes twice in the year I have had the car (2011 c5 x7 e-hdi egs6 ) I have pulled away thinking that I can beet the car coming round the roundabout and suddenly it decided to go from 2nd to 1st and then she goes. I did 3k last month in france and the car performed spot on. I would like a late model egs6 Picasso and would get one in a flash.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by crapday69 » 10 Nov 2017, 18:21

I have had some hesitation with the EGS gearbox, but not enough that would put me off. If you put it into sports mode before you pull out at a busy junction, that should help a little, dont know if they all have a sports button.

Gary.

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Zelandeth
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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by Zelandeth » 10 Nov 2017, 21:18

1.2 seconds for a gearchange? In "sport" mode? Lordy, sounds as bad as the robotised manual box that Volvo have been fitting to some of their buses for the last few years. They always feel like they're at least two gears too far up the box, and take a good second to swap cogs as well. Not great when it insists in you being in third or fourth by the time you've made it from the stop line at the junction to the far side of the road...

I have to admit that I'm very much of the opinion that robotised manual gearboxes are a solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist. There are so many very competent and well proven conventional automatic gearboxes out there that I simply can't see what advantage they offer.

Have driven two or three cars now with a DSG box from VW, and on every occasion found myself wishing for either a proper manual or an "old fashioned" automatic. Trying to do any fine manoeuvring with them seems to be impossible...Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing...launch me through the wall I'm trying to park next to!

We've got a VW Caravelle with the DSG box just now (company car) and had to do a 15 point turn to get out of the parking space in the long-term parking spot at Heathrow a couple of weeks back because while we were away people decided to park about 2" away from both sides of us. The thing that I was acutely aware of as we escaped after a few minutes of shuffling was the unmistakable stench of burning clutch...which would worry me if that happened every time I got stuck in a tight spot.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by bobins » 10 Nov 2017, 21:35

From a manufacturer's point of view, EGS 'boxes are very useful pieces of equipment. They're a great way of economically writing-off a car that is under 10 years old when they go wrong. Cue : another sale of a new car. Or am I just being a bit too cynical ? 8-[

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by crapday69 » 10 Nov 2017, 22:10

Zelandeth wrote:
10 Nov 2017, 21:18

I have to admit that I'm very much of the opinion that robotised manual gearboxes are a solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist. There are so many very competent and well proven conventional automatic gearboxes out there that I simply can't see what advantage they offer.


With my C4 the full auto and manual where £125 to tax, the egs £30. So the problem was emissions so in the case the egs fixed that problem. Ok now full auto boxes have came a long way, but not over 10 years ago when it was developed.


I've never had a problem with fine manoeuvring so must be a VW problem.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by daviemck2006 » 10 Nov 2017, 22:44

I had problems with the c2 sensodrive box manoeuvring. It was fine on spirited get aways but to shift the car dead slow and inch perfect was impossible. So not just a vw problem.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by EDC5 » 10 Nov 2017, 22:49

Proper automatics get good mileage as they all have lock up clutches these days. Mine barely spends any time "open" (as confirmed with Lexia). The power delivery is very smooth too, even between gears.

I think the egs doesn't work not because it's crap, just that the job it's trying to do is huge. It's trying to replace a humans left foot, the skill of engaging a clutch is quite complex. Humans can react to the feintest of vibration, sound or a 'feeling' from the engine when pulling off and can adjust their foot accordingly. I'm guessing the EGS just uses a pre defined timer to close the clutch, and that's it.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 Nov 2017, 22:56

And I doubt the newer C4 Picassos have this system either - especially with the 360 degree parking assist system - as there is no way it could achieve the parallel parking manoeuvres (or any parking manoeuvres for that matter) with this lack of fine control required. So I would expect a fully automatic system or manual.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by crapday69 » 11 Nov 2017, 07:34

EDC5 wrote:
10 Nov 2017, 22:49
Proper automatics get good mileage as they all have lock up clutches these days. Mine barely spends any time "open" (as confirmed with Lexia). The power delivery is very smooth too, even between gears.


My 1989 Volvo 740 auto's torque converter locked up above 50mph so was good on the motorway.
EDC5 wrote:
10 Nov 2017, 22:49
I think the egs doesn't work not because it's crap, just that the job it's trying to do is huge. It's trying to replace a humans left foot, the skill of engaging a clutch is quite complex. Humans can react to the feintest of vibration, sound or a 'feeling' from the engine when pulling off and can adjust their foot accordingly. I'm guessing the EGS just uses a pre defined timer to close the clutch, and that's it.


I would probably agree with you there if I didn't like mine lol. These boxes where supposed to learn your driving style which is good if your the only driver, but if there are two or more others driving it, it must get confused.

They have spent a lot of money on the "what I am told is superb" eat6 gearbox. This coupled onto the 3 cylinder 1.2 engine can move some pretty big motors i.e Peugeot 3008.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by crapday69 » 11 Nov 2017, 07:38

daviemck2006 wrote:
10 Nov 2017, 22:44
I had problems with the c2 sensodrive box manoeuvring. It was fine on spirited get aways but to shift the car dead slow and inch perfect was impossible. So not just a vw problem.


I had this gearbox on my 2005 C3 XTR, first auto with Citroen and I never had problems with it. It was my first and only brand new car and had it for 2.5 years. The boys where getting too big and I dont like knees digging into me when I'm driving. Loved that little car. The only thing it never had that the C4 and C5 have was the 3 second brake lock that helps with uphill starts.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by Zelandeth » 11 Nov 2017, 13:34

I think one of the big issues with conventional autos was city economy, or the lack thereof. One of the main issues with that I think is that the fact that the torque converter still causes a lot of drag on the engine when idling and stationary. One thing I've come across on some ZF 'boxes on commercial vehicles is a feature where they drop into neutral whenever the vehicle is stationary - sure that equates to quite a big fuel saving on a big vehicle like a coach - but I imagine it could help a lot in a car too. I've no huge experience with modern autos in cars, but wouldn't be surprised if that feature had been implemented on cars too. That I imagine would close a lot of the economy gap.

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Re: Just how "bad" is the EGS Gearbox?

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 11 Nov 2017, 14:04

Zelandeth wrote:
11 Nov 2017, 13:34
One thing I've come across on some ZF 'boxes on commercial vehicles is a feature where they drop into neutral whenever the vehicle is stationary - sure that equates to quite a big fuel saving on a big vehicle like a coach - but I imagine it could help a lot in a car too. I've no huge experience with modern autos in cars, but wouldn't be surprised if that feature had been implemented on cars too. That I imagine would close a lot of the economy gap.
My Aisin 6 speed Autobox on the Vectra AF40-6 (AKA...TF-80SC and AM6 in PSA Vehicles) does just that, so I presume that transmission as fitted to Citroens et al does the same.

Regards Neil

PS if you haven't seen the new whatsthisthen? your expertese could well get the answer straight away.