Veg oil

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Re: Veg oil

Post by daviemck2006 »

And thats why im putting in a lot of research before I do it Jim. Im not into saving pennies just now to spend pounds rectifying the damage caused by it. Im not sure yet that just filtering waste veg is enough, even though its free. Ive no problem with new veg if I get it cheap enough.
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Re: Veg oil

Post by CitroJim »

daviemck2006 wrote: 27 Oct 2017, 13:24 And thats why im putting in a lot of research before I do it Jim.


Davie, that's excellent news :D The more research you can do the better!

One good person to speak to who I believe had a lot of experience is Nigel (Falling Out With My Car)...

You might even look into setting up a biodiesel plant and making some proper stuff... I once studied it intensively many years ago and found it a really interesting and absorbing subject...

There is/was some very good forums dealing with the subject too...

The only reason I never did it was because of a lack of space here at CitroJim HQ :(
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Re: Veg oil

Post by daviemck2006 »

Gabby runs so well, and even better on 50% new veg/derv that I really dont want to wreck her by just chucking waste into her. If I can get veg at 71ppl which the last lot cost me, with derv here at 123.9 that averages my fuel under 100ppl which will save a bit with the mileage I do in her. Its about 300 miles a week just at work, so thats approx 30 litres a week so 15 litres at 71 instead of 123 is £8 a week saving. Its better in my pocket than someone elses!
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Re: Veg oil

Post by CitroJim »

daviemck2006 wrote: 27 Oct 2017, 14:05 Gabby runs so well, and even better on 50% new veg/derv that I really dont want to wreck her by just chucking waste into her.


Excellent :D That is such a huge relief to me Davie...

I think if you did do anything to endanger her then Zel and I would be descending upon you in no uncertain terms :wink:
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Re: Veg oil

Post by white exec »

Davie, don't know whether this is any use to you...

I have a brand new one of these (the Stanadyne, not the engine!) lying idle.
http://www.danubia-eng.com/offer.html .
Includes installation instructions, wiring, relay, etc.
Can post to you if you'd like it. FOC.
PM with your address if interested.
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Re: Veg oil

Post by CitroJim »

That would be exceedingly valuable to Davie as the weather cools off Chris :)
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Re: Veg oil

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I remember seeing a program about using veg oil. What one person did was to create a very professional setup. He got three 40 gallon oil drums (with lids that could be latched down and sealed). The pump (which could be secured to the underside of a lid) could only run one way. Once he had the drums steam cleaned he spoke to HMRC as to what they required. What he ended up with (and with the approval of HMRC) was this; the active drum had the lid latched in place with the pump secured to the lid, and HMRC seals to prove the lid was not tampered with. The second drum had filtered used chip fat, with 5% NON-KEROSENE white spirit added to thin it down (it HAS to be a non-kerosene white spirit, otherwise he would have to pay full duty), and was now brewing. The third drum (after being cleaned) was now the repository for used chip fat being collected.

Once the active drum ran out he would contact HMRC, and they would send out an inspector. They would check the seals had not been tampered with, and then snip the seals off. He would then clean the pump and lid, and secure it to the 'brewing' drum (which now should be usable as fuel), when the inspector would fit the seals onto the now active drum (after measuring the amount of 'fuel' was in the drum). The amount of duty payable would then be calculated and paid.

The person also had a certificate that stated he was running his vehicle on chip fat according to the regulations of HMRC (he got this after being pulled over numerous times by the Police who suspected him of avoiding fuel duty), and that the fuel duty had been paid.
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 27 Oct 2017, 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Veg oil

Post by white exec »

That's enough to dampen most folks' enthusiasm, I would think. :cry:
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Re: Veg oil

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

white exec wrote: 27 Oct 2017, 16:46 That's enough to dampen most folks' enthusiasm, I would think. :cry:

Getting nailed with a fine for attempting to avoid fuel duty seriously upsets the demeanour of their wallet even more. Because the person made sure to do it by the book (where HMRC was concerned) it was a very viable system.
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Re: Veg oil

Post by daviemck2006 »

That would be great Chris. It looks easily fitted, even given my dislike of anything electrical and work immediately. The other one someone suggested needs plumbing in to the heater pipes and more suited to a twin tank system. I am under the impression that one can use or make up to 2500 litres of fuel without paying duty.
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Re: Veg oil

Post by CitroJim »

Interesting James :)

I believe HMRC might still allow 2500l of veg to be used duty-free on a self-certificated/self-policed basis per year... If that is still the case it is one heck of a lot of veg. oil to get through!
white exec wrote: 27 Oct 2017, 16:46 That's enough to dampen most folks' enthusiasm, I would think. :cry:
Just the making of the fuel in the first place is enough to put all but the most enthusiastic off Chris, even before the tax man gets involved ;) But then, if you have a good source of free/very cheap WVO and/or SVO it is worth it... But only if done with great care and attention to detail. And within that detail is an awful lot of devil...

I'd have loved to have set up a small bio-diesel plant... It appeals to me still and the chemistry is very interesting as well as the actual construction and operation of the plant...

EDIT: Davie, I saw your post on the 2500l bit just the moment after I posted this...
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Re: Veg oil

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I believe (but I am NOT certain) that if you used white spirit (or similar) to thin out the oil it HAD to be non kerosene based, otherwise full fuel duty has to be paid.
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Re: Veg oil

Post by steve mac »

Thinning with anything that fuel duty has been payed on is the only way you can thin it without incurring duty on the whole amount......I use miss fuel obtained from local friendly garage who are happy to give it away as they would have to pay for its removal...if I run out of that I thin with petrol, far better thinning agent than deisel.....records of amout used have to be kept....it becomes a recordable fuel when its ready to tip into the tank...not raw WVO amounts....oil selection is key to WVO running along with time to settle, gravity is your best friend...usually I try for 9 to 12 mnths
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Re: Veg oil

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Ran my 1998 1.9 td xantia on veg for a little over six years, collected the oil from kebab shops until the price they wanted for it got silly because they had seen the listings for it on eBay. I had the full kit two 205 litre oil drums a Tam 105 pump and all the plumbing heater elements and valves. Whilst it was cheap it was worth doing then suppliers got greedy. It took its toll on my bosh fuel pump and made the seals leak even when running a heat exchanger to heat the oil before it entered the pump, I filtered the oil when cool to 5 microns using fish pond filters. The first thing to go was the primer bulb replaced by a remote control fuel pump no drilling of bulkhead required to fit a switch. Then I filtered to 3 microns removing the heat exchanger and adding 5%rug. Can't do it anymore I gave the whole system away. It was a fairly positive experience that got me through the times when fuel hit £1.30+ per litre. Wouldn't dream of putting it in the hdi, watch out for reconstituted veg oil it doesn't offer the same lubrication properties as new oil or pure rapeseed oil does. Making derv is not for me esspecially not in a wooden shed. Have seen some pretty scarey bio diesel rigs bolted to sides of people's homes in my time an h-bomb waiting for a spark.
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Re: Veg oil

Post by Zelandeth »

I did look into this a while back (actually because someone said "you'll be running that on veg then?" when I first bought Gabriel), but the thing that immediately put me off was the measures needed to safely neutralise the acids etc in waste veg. The chemicals involved were truly nasty in themselves - never mind the potential for things to go wrong in truly interesting and exciting ways when being used together...

I decided that I'd blown enough things up back in the school chemistry labs (managed to take one of the windows out once!), and that that was the place to leave those experiences.

I did never get around to trying fresh veg though...had always meant to.
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