Please not the Diesel Pump...

Post by **philhoward** » 20 Feb 2004, 19:11

A problem with the new Xantia...
It was left for a week without running; went to start it yesterday and flattened the battery trying. One jump start later and a lot of squeezing of the priming bulb (yes, it took a while before it went firm) and it fired fine.
Recharged the battery overnight, went to try it just and exactly the same! Lots of priming bulb squeezing, a bit of turning over and its fine again.
Is the pump on its way out; in which case is it a recon pump [V] or is there a little tweak somewhere?
I've got to leave it in a airport car park for a week and don't want to come back to a flat battery syndrome..

Doc · Post by **Doc** » 20 Feb 2004, 19:27

Sorry to hear you're having problems. Have you checked for air leaks in the filter housing, pipework and primer pump/bulb? or the leak off pipes from the injectors as these go brittle over time and can allow in air under vacuum conditions. My 2.1 XM had similar symptoms and I had to patch in a clear plastic tube to spot a large amount of air bubbles being sucked in through a leaking fuel filter housing. (porous casting AND split primer diaphragm)
I cannot imagine there is a problem with the injector pump/lift pump as these are designed to outlive the engine with regular filter changes. Good luck

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 20 Feb 2004, 19:27

Phil -
Take a deep breath -
It's more than likely
- NOT the roto pump [8D]
Remember the fuel filter & priming bulb is on the pump's weak suction side - nothing to do with it's high pressure injector outputs.
The fact that you have to prime the bulb for longish before it feels firm is the most sure indication of leaking fuel lines.
You're facing one of the most common problems with diesel fuelling : rotten fuel linings - either detoriated rubber or pin-hole rusted rigid pipes - the lines running to/from the tank.
Also the fuel filter canister itself is a common leaker.
Perfectly common & cheap problem [;)]

mipster · Post by **mipster** » 20 Feb 2004, 19:32

Is it a small air leak somewhere which is allowing air into the fuel circuit so draing the pump of fuel overnight?
I would expect the car to start without flattening the battery though.
Try clamping the fuel hose between the filter and pump. If the car starts the next day you've either a air leak into the fuel filter housing or the fuel hose down the rear of the engine.
Moving the clamp will allow you to ascertain where the leak is.
On mine it was the fuel filter housing (£45) and I solved it my inserting a one-way valve just before the pump.
mipster

Post by **philhoward** » 20 Feb 2004, 20:22

Phew!!
It's only had a fuel filter less than a 1000 miles ago, so unless it's been wrecked by the garage doing the change then it's down to checking the fuel lines.
My first guess would probably be the return line as the tank hasn't got much fuel in it; i'd left it for nearly a week previously but with a full tank. Will also have a better look at the overspill pipes off the injectors as ... they are easiest to get to!!
Another job to do when I get back off holiday, then!

JohnCKL · Post by **JohnCKL** » 20 Feb 2004, 21:00

Just changed my hand primer in my XTD 96 after 8 yrs usage and starting is definitely easier. I opened up the old primer and found out that the rubber inside is disintegrating into bits and flakes. No wonder there's so much dirt in my fuel filter housing.

Post by **philhoward** » 21 Feb 2004, 18:49

Had a quick checkover of the fuel lines...and they're SOLID!
No flexibility in them whatsoever, so looks like a job for the next week or two. Looks like the injector overspill pipes have been done recently, but not very well; there's a bolt in the last one where a cap should be!
Pumped the bulb; heard fuel filling the filter housing, started fine.
Ran it for a couple of minutes, turned it off to hear the 'orrible sound of air escaping/entering. Wiggle the return hose off the pump and it stops. Me thinks I've found the culprit! Now to replace it...
Is normal fuel hose fine, or is there special diesel hose? Would oil hose do any better? Or is it all the same stuff just with different pressure ratings?

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 21 Feb 2004, 19:17

Can't you just put a small jubilee clip round it?
Some fuel tube claims to be diesel proof - presumably a vendor will know what he is selling. Clear plastic will work in the short term but will harden quickly.
Jeremy

Post by **philhoward** » 21 Feb 2004, 20:21

It's got one of those factory-type clamp clips on it. The pipe is rock solid anyway, so it'll get replaced shortly as all that vibration isn't going to help it!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 21 Feb 2004, 20:36

The factory clip will spring off quite easily if you lever up the clip and you can the thread a jubilee clip round it and tighten. The pipe will probably last a bit longer unless it has been grossly overheated.
jeremy

davey · Post by **davey** » 22 Feb 2004, 01:45

phil,
had a similar prob a few years ago on xantia where the fuel was running back to the tank. you may have the same. it turned out to be a cracked return rubber fuel line that was leaking and letting in air. the bit in question was the u shaped part, cambelt side, towards the rear of the engine bay (pain to get to and work on!). took me a while to notice it as the leak was very small. Cut out old section, got a bit of semi-rigid polyprop fuel resisant fuel line, softened & shaped it with a heat gun and fixed it in place with stainless jubilee clips.
enjoy

Post by **philhoward** » 22 Feb 2004, 02:25

I have some 8mm Polyprop pipe, so will probably replace with that and just small rubber sections; a bit cheaper than full rubber and as you say, a bit easier to shape with a heat gun around! The standard return pipes lok like a well moulded part; don't really fancy doing that with rubber hose!
As I mentioned earlier, the pipes are solid (no squeeze-ability), so replacement is definately a must do, and soon!