C5 about to go in the canal.

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C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by johnhuson » 12 Oct 2017, 17:47

2002 C5 Estate HDi. 2.2. Auto. Many dash lights so changed ABS pump with new fluid throughout. New disc pads and tyres. 'STOP' light was on
now off. Still got yellow triangle and SERVICE light on, with digital written warning 'ESP/ASR not functioning' and
speedo is not working which is not the stepper motor as I swapped the around with the rev counter.
No BSI done.

The speedo is not the panel if both the digital odometer and speedo is not working.

I have spent many hours and my local garage got the code 1305 which I understand is a group code as
C5's from 2001-2004 did not use OBDi codes.

Any ideas please and where does the speedo get its electronic signal from, it's an automatic? I use this to
transport patients around the country in my volunteer role so need it fixing.
Fed up with it and might end up doing something stupid with it!
Last edited by johnhuson on 12 Oct 2017, 17:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 12 Oct 2017, 17:52

The speedo (and ESP systems) are linked to the ABS system (which is why, when they are working, the speedo is so accurate).
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by Gibbo2286 » 12 Oct 2017, 18:11

Have you got a firm brake pedal? The ABS system, if air has got in, can need bleeding separately to the ordinary bleed and is done with the diagnostic kit, it's quite a rigmarole and ideally needs two people.

I've just had to do it on the C5 I'm fixing up and even after that the ABS light went off but the ESP light stayed on until the battery was disconnected and reconnected.
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Oct 2017, 18:28

johnhuson wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 17:47

I have spent many hours and my local garage got the code 1305 which I understand is a group code as
C5's from 2001-2004 did not use OBDi codes.
I take it your garage is not using a Lexia!
There are several codes for 1305, each preceded with a Letter. If the code is U1305 then this means that the steering wheel angle sensor meeds to be calibrated. The steering wheel angle sensor is critical to the correct operation of the ABS / ESP system and if it is not calibrated you will get the ABS / ESP and service light errors for sure. It will need recalibrating using Diagbox / Lexia, unless your 'mech' has another compatible system.
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by Stickyfinger » 12 Oct 2017, 18:40

How do garages "get away" with working on PSA cars with basic code readers......
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by 411514 » 12 Oct 2017, 18:48

Try cleaning the abs wheel sensors. They get coated in brake dust over time and that can mess with the speedo and abs.
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Oct 2017, 18:51

I know - I am in the middle of compiling a PSA code list - I'm just under 4000 codes so far - the majority of them are 'Manufacturers' codes, of which they can add as many as they want for their specific systems - so unless any of these generic code readers can interpret the specific codes you could get the following for the above code as one example:

P1305 EGR Calibration Low
P1305 Pre-postheating plug 4 : Plug faulty
U1305 Fault: absence of communication with the steering wheel angle sensor : No signal
U1305 Speed of rotation of the steering wheel information fault : No signal
U1305 Steering wheel angle sensor fault : Coherence
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Oct 2017, 18:51

Stickyfinger wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 18:40
How do garages "get away" with working on PSA cars with basic code readers......
I know - I am in the middle of compiling a PSA code list - I'm just under 4000 codes so far - the majority of them are 'Manufacturers' codes, of which they can add as many as they want for their specific systems - so unless any of these generic code readers can interpret the specific codes you could get the following for the above code as one example:

P1305 EGR Calibration Low
P1305 Pre-postheating plug 4 : Plug faulty
U1305 Fault: absence of communication with the steering wheel angle sensor : No signal
U1305 Speed of rotation of the steering wheel information fault : No signal
U1305 Steering wheel angle sensor fault : Coherence
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by johnhuson » 13 Oct 2017, 10:19

Thanks for the reply. I have replaced the ABS pump, bled the system well, which got rid of the STOP warning. What could be next? The reluctor rings do not
seem to give problems and I have not disturbed the sensors or cables. Any other pointers please? I should have said that prior to fitting the pump the code
C1350 came up which I believe was the ABS valve block fault?

His code reader is a proper thing but I doubt their ability in using it. Thanks everyone for contributing.
I suppose the logic is that the speedo picks up its information from the speed of the ABS ring/reluctor/sensor?
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 13 Oct 2017, 10:30

Yes, the speedo is fed from the ABS system. I would suggest you try to get the car to have a Lexia session, and see if she 'sees' all of the wheels turning. If any are not 'seen' it could affect things.

Malcolm Savoy told me (on the only occasion I have met him so far) of a problem he (and his garage) had with a Xsara Picasso. It tool a long time to track down the fault. It turned out one of the magnetic wheel rings had a tiny crack in it, and this crack was enough to throw all the systems that 'read' the rings out of kilter (including the speedo and ABS). Once they found the faulty ring and replaced it all the issues cleared up.
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Oct 2017, 10:30

johnhuson wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 10:19
Thanks for the reply. I have replaced the ABS pump, bled the system well, which got rid of the STOP warning. What could be next? The reluctor rings do not
seem to give problems and I have not disturbed the sensors or cables. Any other pointers please? I should have said that prior to fitting the pump the code
C1350 came up which I believe was the ABS valve block fault?

His code reader is a proper thing but I doubt their ability in using it. Thanks everyone for contributing.
I suppose the logic is that the speedo picks up its information from the speed of the ABS ring/reluctor/sensor?
C1350 is - System Fault: Internal fault in the hydraulic block. Deal with the fault codes first - no sense in disturbing other components until you have dealt with the error codes - which in this case is the ABS block - which you know you have just been working on. Otherwise newer faults may be introduced that can hinder diagnosis.
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by 411514 » 13 Oct 2017, 12:17

GiveMeABreak wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 10:30
C1350 is - System Fault: Internal fault in the hydraulic block. Deal with the fault codes first - no sense in disturbing other components until you have dealt with the error codes - which in this case is the ABS block - which you know you have just been working on. Otherwise newer faults may be introduced that can hinder diagnosis.
I suppose the issue though is that 'dealing with' this fault is likely to be relatively expensive. The only way the ABS block can be effectively discounted is by another replacement, which is likely to cost a couple of hundred pounds even with a used part. In my experience the ABS block is unlikely to be at fault.

My personal approach is not to be overly reliant on fault codes, if for no other reason than because it is possible that legacy fault codes that have not been cleared previously are confused with new fault codes. I would also place no reliance on fault codes generated by a universal scanner type device.

Whenever I have had speedo/ABS faults on my Mk1 C5 it has been dirty ABS sensors, and this is something which can be relatively easily discounted at very little cost (couple of squirts of brake cleaner and 15 minutes of time).
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 13 Oct 2017, 12:28, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 13 Oct 2017, 12:30

If you have access to a Lexia system, JH, I would use it to read and then clear any errors. Then I would try the car out for a short run, and then have another go with the Lexia.

Only use a Lexia (or DiagBox), as they CAN read the PSA ECUs properly. Generic readers are not reliable where PSA vehicles are concerned. There are forum members who have Lexia systems, and are willing to help out;

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 19&t=56452
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Oct 2017, 12:33

411514 wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 12:17
GiveMeABreak wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 10:30
C1350 is - System Fault: Internal fault in the hydraulic block. Deal with the fault codes first - no sense in disturbing other components until you have dealt with the error codes - which in this case is the ABS block - which you know you have just been working on. Otherwise newer faults may be introduced that can hinder diagnosis.
I suppose the issue though is that 'dealing with' this fault is likely to be relatively expensive. The only way the ABS block can be effectively discounted is by another replacement, which is likely to cost a couple of hundred pounds even with a used part. In my experience the ABS block is unlikely to be at fault.
I mentioned this as the specific code is related to the ABS Block - and in the first post, the OP has stated he has already changed it.

@johnhuson: A lexia is the only way to go really - it should be able to tell you if any of the sensors are faulty and which ones. If the sensors were faulty, you would expect the following codes to be shown:

8610 Fault: absence of communication with the front left-hand side satellite : No signal
8611 Fault: absence of communication with the front right-hand side satellite : No signal
8612 Fault: absence of communication with the rear left satellite : No signal
8613 Fault: absence of communication with the rear right satellite : No signal
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Re: C5 about to go in the canal.

Post by wheeler » 13 Oct 2017, 13:58

Stickyfinger wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 18:40
How do garages "get away" with working on PSA cars with basic code readers......

I suppose it depends on what you mean by basic code readers ? do you mean £20 eBay specials or just not Lexia/Diagbox ?
There is some decent kit pro kit out there, I have Bosch KTS, I've not tried it on every PSA model but apart from a few things, mainly coding keys & new control units I don't think I have found much on PSA cars it doesn't do that diagbox can. Some models you get more than others like Mk1 C5 suspension control units can be re configured, actuated & the system depressurised but on the X7 it can only (at the moment) read & erase faults.
It will regen DPF's, calibrate EGR valves, handbrake modules & can even change BSI configurations.
Ive had a play with some of the snap-on & Delphi units too which are equally as good.
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