Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

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Michel
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Michel » 09 Nov 2017, 14:55

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 18:02
Longevity of my Aisin .6 speed

Life 1 60,000 miles
Rebuild, new valve body, internal soft parts, and torque converter, external cooler fitted

Regards Neil


That's complete crap for a modern gearbox. Absolutely terrible lifespan!
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by GiveMeABreak » 09 Nov 2017, 15:04

That's the big fail with these - the valve blocks - and why the oil changes are key despite the 'sealed for life' claim - I don't know what PSA deem 'life' to be any more but obviously not as long as the rest of us...
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by EDC5 » 09 Nov 2017, 16:03

GiveMeABreak wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 15:04
That's the big fail with these - the valve blocks - and why the oil changes are key despite the 'sealed for life' claim - I don't know what PSA deem 'life' to be any more but obviously not as long as the rest of us...


I'd imagine Citroen's idea of 'life' would actually be 'life of the warranty'... if I was feeling particularly cynical.

Michel wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 14:55
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 18:02
Longevity of my Aisin .6 speed

Life 1 60,000 miles
Rebuild, new valve body, internal soft parts, and torque converter, external cooler fitted

Regards Neil


That's complete crap for a modern gearbox. Absolutely terrible lifespan!
The valve body is machined aluminium and the hydraulic pins are steel so any crud inbetween will cause the bore to wear away, hence the regular oil change.

I think the box itself is very reliable and considering the C5 is probably it's less stressful application (think Volvo xc90's and the C6 etc.) it should last well. As I say I think I'd lose more sleep by owning a manual C5 :lol:

Just checked the bay: new valve block is £460.. they’re getting cheaper! :-D (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automatic-Br ... Sw32lYtYi2)
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Paul-R
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Paul-R » 09 Nov 2017, 17:05

It's entirely possible to do 60,000 miles in three years so I wonder whether any have been replaced under warranty?
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by GiveMeABreak » 09 Nov 2017, 17:58

I wonder how the new 8 speed will compare.
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CitroJim
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by CitroJim » 09 Nov 2017, 18:34

'Life' is often defined as 10 years or 100,000 Miles - whichever comes first...

That was the official stated life of the ZF 4HP20 'sealed for life' autobox...
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by demag » 10 Nov 2017, 02:08

Well my C5 auto is 13 years old and approaching 140k and still running. It had a fluid change (partial?) at 60k and I'm hoping to do another soon. The change is excellent when cold but deteriorates when warm. Not drastically so but noticeable.
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Gibbo2286 » 10 Nov 2017, 11:15

Paul-R wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 17:05
It's entirely possible to do 60,000 miles in three years so I wonder whether any have been replaced under warranty?



I had a customer who was a countrywide rep for a specs company, he did 48k miles in 9 months in a Morris 1000, serviced it every Saturday, only bought it because there was a waiting list for his usual Austin A60...............those were the days :-D
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by EDC5 » 10 Nov 2017, 11:20

I've just found a really good video of the entire procedure.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAb9p8Wph-M

Just substitute the volvo specific sections for Citroen.

I have to admit that the old oil on the car in the video looked really clean, it was still red so I feel that him flushing all of that new oil was a bit wasteful to be honest.

My old oil:
Oil-bucket.png
Next time I see to mine I think I might do a flush of 4L and then a replacement of the oil as mine was still blacker than his 'used' oil adter I was done :oops:
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 Nov 2017, 14:28

These are some pictures that show why keeping these valves working in the valve block is important to have good clean oil..

Pictures credits from C6 Owners

Click to zoom:
AM6 Valves.PNG
AM6 Valves.PNG 2.PNG
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Sloppysod » 14 Nov 2017, 21:16

Well, I changed the oil at the weekend, not so much of a clunk now more of a small jerk, nut better :) . I will look into changing the valve block later, wrong time of year!! :Santa:

I used the Total Fluidmatic MV LV whose viscosity is stated as being 36 @ 40c and6 @ 100c, I think this is a little thicker than previous as I get what I can only described as minor clutch slip, as after changing the gear it takes a second or two for the revs to drop, more so after a cold start up in the mornings. other than that the car drives better, smoother when changing through the other gears when warm.
I plan on giving it another change next year and I think i will try a different AW-1 specified oil with a lower viscosity at 40c. it appears from what I have found that the lower temperature has a bigger range between brands. I am thinking of the one from Morris lubricants LIQUIMATIC DS whose viscosity is 12.03 @ 40c and6 @ 100c

Before anyone says anything, I did inquire about the genuine Citroen oil and at £112 +vat for 2 liters (£524.16 for 8 liters) I thought the price was a bit much [-X .

https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/file ... 445036.pdf

http://www.total-distributor-partners.c ... 014_en.pdf

I followed instruction from posts by Marc & EDC5 and watched a number of videos, including the one from an earlier post, what felt really weird is draining oil with the engine running... :shock:

I used 7 liters in Total ( :rofl2:),
  • first flush was 3 liters out, refilled with 3 liters, brought the temperature back up to 60c oil was ######
  • Stopped the engine and drained
  • Checked still 3 liters, so added another 3 + 1/2 a liter, brought the temperature back up to 60c, oil was ######
  • Drained off, with engine running, 3/4 of a litre
:shock:
  • Added 1/2 liter, brought the temperature back up to 60c
  • Drained 1/2 liter oil is ######
  • Job done
  • I then went to reset the gearbox counter and it was already at 0 :( (will check next time I connect the computer to see if it has changed
whole job took around 3 hours, most of the time was getting the temperature up, so lots of tea & biscuits.
Big thanks to those who I PM'd to get as much info a possible before I started the job.
Attachments
3rd Sample.jpg
After final bleed
2nd Sample.jpg
After 2nd drain
1st Sample.jpg
1st drain
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Lenny
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Lenny » 14 Nov 2017, 22:13

I've changed the oil in mine a couple of times and used this:

https://www.bullseyecarparts.co.uk/cate ... id-1-litre

I don't know how the price compares but I've had no problems with it (and the delivery from this supplier was excellent).
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Sloppysod
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Sloppysod » 15 Nov 2017, 13:54

Lenny wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 22:13
I've changed the oil in mine a couple of times and used this:

https://www.bullseyecarparts.co.uk/cate ... id-1-litre

I don't know how the price compares but I've had no problems with it (and the delivery from this supplier was excellent).

Thanks for your reply Lenny, yes the Carlube AFT has lower viscosities at both temperatures 28@40c & 5.75@100c, but as I have over 50% Total LV in my gearbox, I think using the Morris oil will lower the 40c viscosity a bit. As I said I have technically done two changes so the next one will only be one change of about 3 litres, then I will see if there are any changes.

Does your 2010 C5 need JS3309 or AW-1?
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by EDC5 » 15 Nov 2017, 14:38

Sloppysod wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 21:16
Well, I changed the oil at the weekend, not so much of a clunk now more of a small jerk, nut better :) . I will look into changing the valve block later, wrong time of year!! :Santa:

I used the Total Fluidmatic MV LV whose viscosity is stated as being 36 @ 40c and6 @ 100c, I think this is a little thicker than previous as I get what I can only described as minor clutch slip, as after changing the gear it takes a second or two for the revs to drop, more so after a cold start up in the mornings. other than that the car drives better, smoother when changing through the other gears when warm.
I plan on giving it another change next year and I think i will try a different AW-1 specified oil with a lower viscosity at 40c. it appears from what I have found that the lower temperature has a bigger range between brands. I am thinking of the one from Morris lubricants LIQUIMATIC DS whose viscosity is 12.03 @ 40c and6 @ 100c

Before anyone says anything, I did inquire about the genuine Citroen oil and at £112 +vat for 2 liters (£524.16 for 8 liters) I thought the price was a bit much [-X .

https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/file ... 445036.pdf

https://www.total-distributor-partners.c ... 014_en.pdf

I followed instruction from posts by Marc & EDC5 and watched a number of videos, including the one from an earlier post, what felt really weird is draining oil with the engine running... :shock:

I used 7 liters in Total ( :rofl2:),
  • first flush was 3 liters out, refilled with 3 liters, brought the temperature back up to 60c oil was ######
  • Stopped the engine and drained
  • Checked still 3 liters, so added another 3 + 1/2 a liter, brought the temperature back up to 60c, oil was ######
  • Drained off, with engine running, 3/4 of a litre
:shock:
  • Added 1/2 liter, brought the temperature back up to 60c
  • Drained 1/2 liter oil is ######
  • Job done
  • I then went to reset the gearbox counter and it was already at 0 :( (will check next time I connect the computer to see if it has changed
whole job took around 3 hours, most of the time was getting the temperature up, so lots of tea & biscuits.
Big thanks to those who I PM'd to get as much info a possible before I started the job.

Image
Image
Image


Fantastic, glad you got it sorted. :)

I feel bad about only changing 3 litres and not flushing at all.... maybe I'll bring my planned oil change forward as my oil was still pretty black after only renewing 3 litres or so.

Glad that the oil has improved the gear change, hopefully the 'small jerk' is more manageable than the clunk!
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Lenny
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Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Lenny » 15 Nov 2017, 21:40

Does your 2010 C5 need JS3309 or AW-1?
AW-1.
I believe the change was when they changed from the 138bhp (Euro4) engine to the 160bhp (Euro5) one. Mine's a 160bhp.
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