Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Our most popular forum is for Citroën problems, discussions and chat.
Specialising in AX, BX, ZX, Xantia,C5, Xsara, Saxo and XM. CX, 2cv & Berlingo, all are welcome.NOT for selling cars/parts!

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
EDC5
Posts: 399
Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
Location: East Yorkshire / N. Wales
My Cars: Citroen C5 RHR AM6
x 28

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by EDC5 » 17 Oct 2017, 13:46

No idea, perhaps if the oil overheats it goes black?

I'll be replacing 3 litres every year as part of the annual service regardless as that's only half of the volume of the box so I think it's a good compromise.
0x

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 39258
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
x 727

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by CitroJim » 17 Oct 2017, 14:26

white exec wrote:
17 Oct 2017, 12:39
What turns the fluid so black? Friction lining wear? Heat?


A combination of both I reckon Chris and most friction lining debris will have come from the lock-up clutch in the torque converter...

That was my experience with the HP20... Lock-up clutches are the first to wear and then fail and even after 150K there is very little wear evident on the gearbox brakes and clutches proper...
0x
Jim

Please note I do not accept PMs...

Gibbo2286
Posts: 2152
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
Location: GL15***
My Cars: 2004 C5 2.0 litre HDI
x 148

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Gibbo2286 » 17 Oct 2017, 17:59

EDC5 wrote:
17 Oct 2017, 12:21
Sloppysod wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 20:34
"SEALED FOR LIFE - NOT ON YOUR NELLY!!"
Hi all, I have managed to track down one definitive answer to how often the AFT should be changed (Partially anyway) in an Aisin AM6 gearbox.
https://www.be.aisin-europe.com/themes/ ... forpc.html

In the middle of page 12 "AISIN recommends car owners to change AFT every 2 years or 20000KM. without proper maintenance for the AFT, you car performance will be worsened, more fuel will be consumed and teh transmission may be damaged"...........

They also list the correct oil, or the most up to date spec, but as of yet I have not found a UK supplier!!... still looking

So far, Exact AW-1 specification oils are:
Petronas Tutela, Granville TDS-279, MPM 16000HT, Carlube AFT LV, Eurol 6700 Atf, not sure about the Total Fluidmatic, ason the front page of the spec it says JWS3309 then further down it states AW-1!



Do they mean it needs a 3L oil change every 20k km or a full 7L oil change? If it's the latter then they should have put a the sodding drain plug at the lowest point on the gearbox!


It's not the box that retains the oil it's the torque converter, back in the old Borg Warner days they used to have an inspection hole in the bottom of the bell housing and a drain plug in the converter so it could be changed but the materials and the oils used in those days were far less developed than today's stuff.
0x

User avatar
EDC5
Posts: 399
Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
Location: East Yorkshire / N. Wales
My Cars: Citroen C5 RHR AM6
x 28

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by EDC5 » 17 Oct 2017, 18:40

Gibbo2286 wrote:
17 Oct 2017, 17:59
EDC5 wrote:
17 Oct 2017, 12:21
Sloppysod wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 20:34
"SEALED FOR LIFE - NOT ON YOUR NELLY!!"
Hi all, I have managed to track down one definitive answer to how often the AFT should be changed (Partially anyway) in an Aisin AM6 gearbox.
https://www.be.aisin-europe.com/themes/ ... forpc.html

In the middle of page 12 "AISIN recommends car owners to change AFT every 2 years or 20000KM. without proper maintenance for the AFT, you car performance will be worsened, more fuel will be consumed and teh transmission may be damaged"...........

They also list the correct oil, or the most up to date spec, but as of yet I have not found a UK supplier!!... still looking

So far, Exact AW-1 specification oils are:
Petronas Tutela, Granville TDS-279, MPM 16000HT, Carlube AFT LV, Eurol 6700 Atf, not sure about the Total Fluidmatic, ason the front page of the spec it says JWS3309 then further down it states AW-1!



Do they mean it needs a 3L oil change every 20k km or a full 7L oil change? If it's the latter then they should have put a the sodding drain plug at the lowest point on the gearbox!


It's not the box that retains the oil it's the torque converter, back in the old Borg Warner days they used to have an inspection hole in the bottom of the bell housing and a drain plug in the converter so it could be changed but the materials and the oils used in those days were far less developed than today's stuff.


A second drain plug is a great idea, although I'm assuming it can't be implemented without compromising the design of the impeller housing perhaps?
0x

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 4696
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ)
x 135

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by xantia_v6 » 17 Oct 2017, 20:55

On a transmission (in good condition), the blackness of the fluid seems to due to particles of friction material. If you perform 'paper chromatography' by dipping a strip of absorbent paper into a sample of the oil, you will probably see in the wicked oil that the dark compound separates quickly from the clear fluid.

An abused transmission that has been very hot (clutch temperatures above 200 C) will burn the oil, which then smells burnt. That blackness does not separate so cleanly.
0x

User avatar
Sloppysod
donor 2017
Posts: 305
Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
Location: North Wales
My Cars: Citroens
1 x GS, 1 x GSX (Banger raced), 1 x GSA,
2 x CX Famililles, 1 x CX GTI,
BX, XM, Xantia, C5 Mk1,
C4 (Coupe), C4 (B7),
C5 (X7)

Renault
R4 Van
Fuego
Clio Campas
x 13

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Sloppysod » 03 Nov 2017, 11:38

tich731 wrote:
14 Oct 2017, 20:26
I have just bought 10 litres of Total Fluidmatic MVLV from http://specialisedproducts.co.uk/ for the gearbox on my C6. I visited them in person and they were very helpful. I do not know if they would post.


Update - This place will post 2 x 5 Litres for £10 (+vat) (quoted 1/11/17), the oil is a good price too.!
0x
Stu

411514
donor 2017
Posts: 321
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:26
Location: Sheffield, Uk
My Cars: Citroen C5 2.0 Hdi 2003
x 23

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by 411514 » 03 Nov 2017, 11:40

I wonder if the one of the engine oil suction drain kits could be used to suck the oil from the TC?
0x
Sam

2003 C5 2.0HDI 110

Gibbo2286
Posts: 2152
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
Location: GL15***
My Cars: 2004 C5 2.0 litre HDI
x 148

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Gibbo2286 » 03 Nov 2017, 11:50

411514 wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 11:40
I wonder if the one of the engine oil suction drain kits could be used to suck the oil from the TC?


No, it can't reach it.
0x

User avatar
EDC5
Posts: 399
Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
Location: East Yorkshire / N. Wales
My Cars: Citroen C5 RHR AM6
x 28

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by EDC5 » 03 Nov 2017, 14:22

Gibbo2286 wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 11:50
411514 wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 11:40
I wonder if the one of the engine oil suction drain kits could be used to suck the oil from the TC?


No, it can't reach it.


If you see this pic:

Image

There is a piece of metal immediately in the opening preventing anything from getting into the bowels of the box.
0x

User avatar
Sloppysod
donor 2017
Posts: 305
Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
Location: North Wales
My Cars: Citroens
1 x GS, 1 x GSX (Banger raced), 1 x GSA,
2 x CX Famililles, 1 x CX GTI,
BX, XM, Xantia, C5 Mk1,
C4 (Coupe), C4 (B7),
C5 (X7)

Renault
R4 Van
Fuego
Clio Campas
x 13

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Sloppysod » 08 Nov 2017, 13:34

I am going to do two changes this weekend (2 x 3+ litres) and have a question that hopefully one of you will be able to answer.
Do I have to reset the oil counter? I know I have to check the oil temperature between changes to ensure the oil is warm enough, but what is the reason behind resetting the oil counter, I have seen one video where once it was reset he typed in the same number before the reset, why?
Thanks in advance - Stu
0x
Stu

Gibbo2286
Posts: 2152
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
Location: GL15***
My Cars: 2004 C5 2.0 litre HDI
x 148

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Gibbo2286 » 08 Nov 2017, 13:41

The book says to reset the oil counter but I didn't bother with mine and there seems to be nothing gone amiss.

I assume that it will be to do with the diagnostic kit reporting faults that it's needed to be done, maybe it misleads the kit somehow if it's not done.
0x

Gibbo2286
Posts: 2152
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
Location: GL15***
My Cars: 2004 C5 2.0 litre HDI
x 148

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Gibbo2286 » 08 Nov 2017, 13:58

This from a PDF on the Volvo site.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
0x

User avatar
EDC5
Posts: 399
Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
Location: East Yorkshire / N. Wales
My Cars: Citroen C5 RHR AM6
x 28

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by EDC5 » 08 Nov 2017, 14:16

Sloppysod wrote:
08 Nov 2017, 13:34
I am going to do two changes this weekend (2 x 3+ litres) and have a question that hopefully one of you will be able to answer.
Do I have to reset the oil counter? I know I have to check the oil temperature between changes to ensure the oil is warm enough, but what is the reason behind resetting the oil counter, I have seen one video where once it was reset he typed in the same number before the reset, why?
Thanks in advance - Stu


I reset mine to zero as it makes sense to inform the gearbox ECU of the oil change, that way it may tighten some of the solenoid timings or something (I'm not sure). I'm not sure how essential it is though, but saw no reason not to.
0x

Xantippa
Posts: 327
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 16:51
Location: Finland
My Cars: C5 X7 HDi 240 Exclusive Tourer
x 9

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by Xantippa » 09 Nov 2017, 11:36

My AM6 was flushed, and there was nothing done with computer. Gearbox works just fine after that, so I don't think that resetting is very necessary. A bit same thing than with changing the battery.
0x

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 6638
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: '09 C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
'07 C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
Past:
'76 GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow (yuk)
'79 GS 1220 Geranium Red
'78 CX 2.4 Turbo Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
'84 CX 20 Polar White
'90 XM 2.0 SX Polar White
'93 XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
'94 XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
'98 C15 Romahome White
'99 Xantia 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
'01 C5 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
'05 C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
x 455

Re: Asin 6 speed auto - Clunk

Post by GiveMeABreak » 09 Nov 2017, 13:59

It is a preventative measure - to tell the ECU that the oil has been changed. The ECU software adjusts the hydraulic valves and actuators which operate the gearshifting to allow for the deterioration in the oil. Not doing this will likely mean rough shifting or other problems in future. That is why it is done.
0x
Marc