Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

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white exec
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by white exec »

Fill through the filler/level hole, as per service instructions. It's the only way to get the oil level exactly right.
If you're not happy doing it, let the workshop do it for you: 10-15 minute job max. They will also have an oil refilling gun (syringe) which will make the job easy. Make sure oil is pukka Total Transmission 8, GL-4.
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by bobins »

Reverse switch at number 1.
Picasso reverse switch
Picasso reverse switch
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by Andle »

bobins wrote: 01 Oct 2017, 14:01
Andle wrote: 30 Sep 2017, 19:51
Is this a job I can do at home?

Since I'm having the front brake pads changed- is it easier to get the job done - whilst the front wheels are already off?




It's a little difficult to say whether you can do the job at home as I don't know what kit you've got, but with fairly basic tools* it's possible to do it at home. It's definitely easier with the front wheel off, and you need to make sure the car is both supported safely and level before you start draining the oil. A certain amount of crawling underneath is needed in order to get to the drain plug, but it shouldn't be too hard to get to from the wheel arch. I don't know the layout of your engine bay under the bonnet, so it might be necessary to move and/or disconnect a few things to get to the vent plug - or it may be visible as soon as you open the bonnet and look in the right area ! If it's a lot of grief to get to the vent plug then consider refilling it via the level plug on the side of the gearbox. If your new bottles of oil don't come with flexible tubes attached to them, then you'll have to rely on getting the oil in with a length of tube with a funnel on the top. It can be a slow process to do it that way, but we're only talking of minutes extra, not hours !! :)


*- sockets, spanners, jack, axle stands, drain pan, tube, funnel, rags, tea, etc.
You might need an Allen key or drain plug key to undo the drain plug or refill plug - much depends on what was fitted to your car.


Will I definitely need to order new washers for the relevant bolts? Can they be had from GSF?
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by Andle »

white exec wrote: 01 Oct 2017, 17:34 Fill through the filler/level hole, as per service instructions. It's the only way to get the oil level exactly right.
If you're not happy doing it, let the workshop do it for you: 10-15 minute job max. They will also have an oil refilling gun (syringe) which will make the job easy. Make sure oil is pukka Total Transmission 8, GL-4.


1. Any chance that somebody could link me to the official procedures (PDF) for an oil change on this particular car + the gear oil change?

2. When The gear oil has drained - is there a way to get the gearbox to do one revolution (manually)?

I find it dislodges a lot of extra oil - when doing an engine oil change. I suspect it would also be the same when draining transmission oil.
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by white exec »

Rotating the innards of a manual gearbox will not dislodge anything much in the way of oil. There is nowhere for oil to reside. Apart from a thin coating on the internal surfaces and components, all the oil will drain out.

Procedure:
With car raised but level...
1. remove drain plug and leave to drain out
2. remove filler/level plug
3. refit drain plug
4. fill with specified oil through the filler hole until oil dribbles out
5. wait until the dribble more or less stops
6. refit filler plug
7. done
Easy and straightforward.
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by tomb1972 »

can i just use vent to top up
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by white exec »

Possibly, but you'll never know whether you've done it to the correct level unless you undo the level plug !
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Yes change it and add a tube of moly slip to the measured out oil you won't regret it. Measure how much comes out and only replace that amount. Do it again in six months time. Try to drain into the measuring jug.
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by flying clutchman »

slightly sideways question. What are the myths about changing gearbox oil? The only one I'm aware of is that it will cure a variety of gearbox problems. Provided you use the correct grade of oil ther is really no possibility of harm. You'll probably need an 8mm square plug socket by the way. The job itself is very simple just access is a bit fiddly
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by white exec »

Molyslip? Be careful in adding friction modifiers like this to PSA 'boxes. The synchromesh rings in the 'box require a very specific amount of friction for them to work properly. For that reason, GL-4 oil is specified. GL-5 oil is also available, and has additional low-friction properties, but this NOT recommended for our manual boxes.

Having run on GL-5, and switched to the correct GL-4, I can say that gear changes are smoother and easier with the latter. My suggestion is that you don't add anything to it.

The only use for Molyslip - in desperate circumstances - is to quieten down a worn and whining gearbox or diff. I've done both, and it does work. Otherwise, it's best avoided.
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I quite agree with that assessment Chris.
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

well Ive used Molyslip in all my boxes ever since the Ax then the BX and the xantia it has improved cold gear changes no end in the winters freezing weather.
I discussed this matter with a DS owner on the forum some years ago and he tried it to, he came back to say how much easier his (original DS) gearbox was to change
gear in the cold. no one is forcing anyone to do it, its a matter of personal choice. :wink:
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by white exec »

The real enemy of easy gear changes on recent 5-speed manual boxes (which are built to very close tolerances) is the often inappropriate use of 75W-90 or 75W-85 gear oil, which is frequently offered as a "universal" gear oil.

PSA boxes, and ZF too, have for a long time baulked at this heavier oil in cold weather, somethimes making it almost impossible to engage 1st, or move from 1st to 2nd.

Shifting to 75W-80 (in Toyota's case an unusually recommended 75W-75) solves the cold weather issue. Couple that with ensuring the boxes are run on the required and assured GL-4 (so the synchromesh operates properly) and not GL-5, and gear changing should be first rate.

My guess is that the historic use of Molyslip was a remedial measure to cope with a less-than-ideal choice of gear oil, and - decades ago - to quieten down sloppy and worn gear systems.

Modern boxes probably don't have the bearing clearances to cope with added lubricating bulk. But, as you say, a personal choice.
Chris
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by Andle »

bobins wrote: 25 Sep 2017, 20:19 Here's the layout of the gearbox drain / level / vent plugs:

Image

1: Drain screw.
2: Level plug.
3: Vent.

Make sure the car is sitting level before you start.
Expect the oil to drain out to everywhere except the drain pan you've carefully placed underneath. Oily rags, newspapers, boards are all very useful, as are plenty of hand wipes :roll:
Once you've drained the 'box and are as sure as you can be that all the oil is out, replace the drain plug with new washer if necessary. Remove the level plug and vent plug if you hadn't already done so. You can refill via the vent plug hole - a length of CLEAN hose or tube with a CLEAN funnel stuck on the top would make the job a lot easier. Don't be surprised if oil comes out of the level plug just before you've put all 1.8 litres in. You may get a few more cc's in if you let it settle a bit, but you won't get much more in.
Have a quick look in the old oil once you've drained it. Check for signs of metal filings. In the highly unlikely chance you find lots, then have a long hard think about your future relationship with the car :wink:
Urgent - car is in ramp!

Could someone pleas get me the correct torque for each of these three nuts?
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Re: Manual Gearbox Oil - Change, or Not to Change? That is the question.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here:
Andle Torque.PNG
ReferenceDesignationTightening torque
(1)Vent hole1,5 daNm
(2)Reverse gear rocker shaft fixing nut4,5 daNm
(3)Differential housing fixing nut1,5 daNm
(4)Securing bolt (Ø M10) (Differential housing )4 daNm
(5)Speedometer drive support1,5 daNm
(6)Securing bolt (Ø M7) (Differential housing )1,5 daNm
(7)drain plug3,5 daNm
(8)Level plug2,2 daNm
(9)bolts - gearbox casing - clutch housing1,5 daNm
(10)Fixing nut for 5th gear housing1,5 daNm
(11)Reverse lamp switch2,5 daNm
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Marc
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