Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

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ekjdm14
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by ekjdm14 »

Looks like dried coolant to me, and likely not helping the connections in the plugs that are covered in it. First thing I'd do before spending money on parts is open up those plugs and clean up all contacts, noting any beyond a clean & either fitting new pins or bypassing the plugs for now. I'd suggest this might cure or at least help the starting issue.

Not sure where the coolant would have come from, but definitely needs to be checked/sorted too.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by 411514 »

ekjdm14 wrote: 26 Jul 2017, 12:35Not sure where the coolant would have come from, but definitely needs to be checked/sorted too.
You'll notice that the crank sensor is just below the rad top hose and 'stat housing. Come to think of it, I seem to recall that ours died the day after I had bled the clutch slave cylinder (which is also just above the crank sensor) and I decided at the time that I must have spilt brake fluid on it. Maybe the crank sensor is particularly sensitive to contamination.

I agree with the cleaning the connector suggestion now I have seen the residue on it.
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

Thanks guys for the good suggestions.

It's been raining today so can't do much, I'll also try to take better pictures from under it.

Yes it looks like leaked coolant it was before I got it and looks as though the fault has been repaired with new bracket to hose at the top and don't get any leaks now.
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

Just an update for you all I've taken the sensor out, easy if you know how. and some pictures.

The connectors all looked good and clean no residue on them or pins. But just on the wires and also some of residue had gotten in on the sensor itself.

Is it worth cleaning the sensor and trying or a new sensor is a must?
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411514
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by 411514 »

Probably worth cleaning the sensor. But even if that doesn't work, I would still be minded to treat it with suspicion and replace with a new sensor before looking elsewhere.
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

Nope it's not started, cleaned it up and still the same problem, if it was the sensor should it not change the sound slightly when attempting to start?

Before I get a new one, any other suggestions or check I can do? Remember once it starts and gets going after first attempt then it will start without any problem until cold.
411514 wrote: 28 Jul 2017, 16:20 Probably worth cleaning the sensor. But even if that doesn't work, I would still be minded to treat it with suspicion and replace with a new sensor before looking elsewhere.

white exec wrote: 23 Jul 2017, 19:45
RichardW wrote: 25 Jul 2017, 12:15
ekjdm14 wrote: 26 Jul 2017, 12:35
ekjdm14
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by ekjdm14 »

That's the interesting thing for me, once it's warm it seems to behave... Perhaps you could use this temperature sensitivity to your advantage & heat the CPS/area around it for 10 minutes with a hairdryer on hot, then see if it starts. If not, try other suspect components.

Still a long way short of a lexia session but could be of use. Another area to check would be the coolant temperature sensor/s and their connections, if they're saying the engine is red hot when it's stone cold it would make starting a pain.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

ekjdm14 wrote: 29 Jul 2017, 12:36 That's the interesting thing for me, once it's warm it seems to behave... Perhaps you could use this temperature sensitivity to your advantage & heat the CPS/area around it for 10 minutes with a hairdryer on hot, then see if it starts. If not, try other suspect components.

Still a long way short of a lexia session but could be of use. Another area to check would be the coolant temperature sensor/s and their connections, if they're saying the engine is red hot when it's stone cold it would make starting a pain.


I think you might be on to something here with heat sensors, on one occasion I manage to get it started and warmed it up for about 5mins and switched it off and locked door and had to go, I could hear fan still running, it didn't click at the time but now you mention it and with symptoms I think you might be right.

Can anyone tell me how many heat sensors are there and locations please? Just for the purpose of testing can I take off the connectors of the sensor and try start to see if it any of em are faulty? or will that not work? Or can I short the connectors with 300K resistor to simulate the sensor?

Thanks
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

Update: Yes looks it's coolant heat temp sensor the green one at the back, did hair dryer for 5mins on it it started right up. Can someone please post the part no? or could I repair it?

I would like to thank each and everyone who contributed, all of you guys offered great assistance and best community.
ekjdm14
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Posts: 1810
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
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'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days
x 212

Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by ekjdm14 »

Brilliant, glad to hear you've made some progress with it. If the sensor itself is faulty you'd be best off replacing (I'd try and get genuine or at least known good brand as some ebay ones can be of questionable build) but there's still a possibility it's a bad connection.

If you haven't already, unplug the connector to the sensor & check the terminals inside for being either a loose fit or corroded. If cleaning/tightening the connectors is no help then I'd replace the sensor. Shouldn't be more than about 15-20 quid I would imagine based on other sensors I've had to buy.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

ekjdm14 wrote: 31 Jul 2017, 17:02 Brilliant, glad to hear you've made some progress with it. If the sensor itself is faulty you'd be best off replacing (I'd try and get genuine or at least known good brand as some ebay ones can be of questionable build) but there's still a possibility it's a bad connection.

If you haven't already, unplug the connector to the sensor & check the terminals inside for being either a loose fit or corroded. If cleaning/tightening the connectors is no help then I'd replace the sensor. Shouldn't be more than about 15-20 quid I would imagine based on other sensors I've had to buy.


Just took the measurements from sensor, the connectors are clean and pins clean and good too, the sensor itself measure 6.78ohms on 20k settings on multimeter, once I started to give heat with hair dryer temp dropped to about 3.75ohms, which mean the sensor is OK? Right?

The voltage in connecting wires was measuring approx 0.20V when off and 7.50V approx when key turned on should that not be 5V.

Also the two wires in the connector are measuring 0.75ohms resistance when taken off the sensor, that should measure nothing right?

Thanks
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by admiral51 »

Adder have you checked the main earth point for the battery to the chassis.
If i have it correct the pic you posted earlier shows the earth lead to the chassis.
To me it looks rusty as does the bolt. Whilst it may be tight if it does not have a good connection to ground ( no rust ) then whilst it will crank when cold it could arc and in effect weld the bolt.
when it is warm it takes less to turn over so starts ?
Even a jump start will take a while if the battery on the stranded vehicle has a poor earth ?
I would clean up the area around the earth lead to chassis and replace the bolt as a precaution.

I know its not a 12v issue but we had 2 Scania that would start when hot but crank for 30 secs when cold.
It turned out the corrosion build up and tightening of the earth strap ended up with the bolts being welded to the chassis as it was arcing.
We have now in place a 6 weekly check that involves the removal and clean up of all earth strap connections on all wagons and for the last 3 years we have not had a non start/flat battery issue.

I would also check the crimp terminal on the earth strap as this can fracture and increase the risk of arcing and not giving the starting motor the full beans from the battery

Not saying it needs doing every 6 weeks, just as our wagons have a 6 weekly inspection we incorporated into that schedule.
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

admiral51 wrote: 12 Aug 2017, 18:39 Adder have you checked the main earth point for the battery to the chassis.
If i have it correct the pic you posted earlier shows the earth lead to the chassis.
To me it looks rusty as does the bolt. Whilst it may be tight if it does not have a good connection to ground ( no rust ) then whilst it will crank when cold it could arc and in effect weld the bolt.
when it is warm it takes less to turn over so starts ?
Even a jump start will take a while if the battery on the stranded vehicle has a poor earth ?
I would clean up the area around the earth lead to chassis and replace the bolt as a precaution.

I know its not a 12v issue but we had 2 Scania that would start when hot but crank for 30 secs when cold.
It turned out the corrosion build up and tightening of the earth strap ended up with the bolts being welded to the chassis as it was arcing.
We have now in place a 6 weekly check that involves the removal and clean up of all earth strap connections on all wagons and for the last 3 years we have not had a non start/flat battery issue.

I would also check the crimp terminal on the earth strap as this can fracture and increase the risk of arcing and not giving the starting motor the full beans from the battery

Not saying it needs doing every 6 weeks, just as our wagons have a 6 weekly inspection we incorporated into that schedule.


Thanks for your suggestion, but the first thing I did was to test ground and it was OK.

I've narrow it down to a few things now

1. It's connector problem somewhere/something is loose or dirty and not connecting,(but why start sometimes?)
2. the ECU is faulty or corrupt software/ or a relay is gone and shorting and system is cutting off.
3. the System is self shutting down as it's detecting problem or danger( does this car have build in auto shutdown?)

I can now start the car without Jumper cables as I don't think I needed them all along it was just matter of keep trying and it becomes active. Other day I wanted to do voltage drop test and it was dropping to about 9v, but it could have been because I was cranking and battery was low and today I wanted to do the test on a fully charged battery and it start the first time, on/off about 3 and starts every time.
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Re: Citroen C4 2005 Petrol, not starting.

Post by adder »

Ok so I get service light on for a few seconds and an error message with beep " System speed rest failure " What does that mean if anyone knows?
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