C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

This is supposition, but I wonder if, by having the cap loosened, it allows for a faster airflow INTO the reservoir when the car is lifted in a way that allows the wheels to be suspended. Then, when the car is lowered back down the only air in the system is contained within the reservoir.

If, however, the cap is not loosened, and the C5 is lifted the same way, some air is drawn in past the seals in the suspension (as the reservoir has a drop in pressure as the air comes past the 'valve' in the LDS cap). Then, when the car is lowered back down, as there is air in the system other than in the reservoir, this causes LDS to be forced back into the reservoir.
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It should be that coppery reddish colour Elis. What you have there looks like it's been tangoed!

The same fluid is used for the Power Steering system, but either that stuff in the picture has been aerated under extreme pressure due to over-filling or it has been contaminated. See how it looks after it settles down.

Always raise the car on high before letting tyre fitters jack it up and remove the cap.
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by EDC5 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 21:44 It should be that coppery reddish colour Elis. What you have there looks like it's been tangoed!

The same fluid is used for the Power Steering system, but either that stuff in the picture has been aerated under extreme pressure due to over-filling or it has been contaminated. See how it looks after it settles down.

Always raise the car on high before letting tyre fitters jack it up and remove the cap.


That's what I was thinking, I have a bottle of Fluide LDS and that appears to be redder, I'll take a sample tomorrow and compare, hopefully it's just air.... otherwise it's probably a fluid replacement job?
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by myglaren »

EDC5 wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 21:10
myglaren wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 21:05 Mine is too full too, has been since before I bought the car.
Haven't had any problems and keep meaning to fix it.
May even do it one day :roll:


Haha... I'm sure it'll be fine as long as you don't depressurise the system with the cap securely on!


I do frequent Citroebics - I have convinced myself that this keeps the rams lubricated outside the normal suspension travel, exercises the trailing arm bearings, keeps the pump running freely and reduces the chance of corrosion and amuses* other drivers waiting for the lights to change.
None has ever leaked out.
It does look rather redish though.



* 'amuses' as in horrifies if their expressions are anything to go by :)
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by EDC5 »

myglaren wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 22:04
EDC5 wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 21:10
myglaren wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 21:05 Mine is too full too, has been since before I bought the car.
Haven't had any problems and keep meaning to fix it.
May even do it one day :roll:


Haha... I'm sure it'll be fine as long as you don't depressurise the system with the cap securely on!


I do frequent Citroebics - I have convinced myself that this keeps the rams lubricated outside the normal suspension travel, exercises the trailing arm bearings, keeps the pump running freely and reduces the chance of corrosion and amuses* other drivers waiting for the lights to change.
None has ever leaked out.
It does look rather redish though.



* 'amuses' as in horrifies if their expressions are anything to go by :)

Citroebics sound fun... but at the speed at which the suspension moves I doubt if any other drivers would notice :wink: ..... am I right in thinking the older Citroens with a engine driven pump were a lot faster?

I've been out today and checked the fluid, it seems a lot redder thank god. :o

If i wanted to replace all of the LDS.... would it be an easy process? is it recommended?
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

My C5 Mk1 estate does move up and down fast enough to raise eyebrows of those drivers who are not aware of the acrobatic abilities of Citroens.
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

EDC5 wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 21:10
Citroebics sound fun... but at the speed at which the suspension moves I doubt if any other drivers would notice :wink: ..... am I right in thinking the older Citroens with a engine driven pump were a lot faster?
I've been out today and checked the fluid, it seems a lot redder thank god. :o

If i wanted to replace all of the LDS.... would it be an easy process? is it recommended?
Depressurising the system should be done on low suspension setting - use diagbox, global setting, suspension ecu - depressurising suspension - follow instructions - battery disconnected.
Total capacity is about 5.2 Litres of LDS for a Hydractive 3+ X7. System should only be filled to the second mark just inside the neck - mark 'b' below:
LDS X7 Levels.png
I'm glad it seems to have returned to its original colour Elis. Fingers crossed.

Re the older Citroen's (my long wheel based CX Prestige - disco in the back sized beast) - on a well-maintained system with the accumulator in good state the car would raise and lower quire quickly, lowering was generally a lot quicker than raising! It could however take an age to rise (where have you heard that before :roll: ) - with a bad accumulator / pump!
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by EDC5 »

Thanks Marc, is there a way to bleed the LDS out of the pipes to the rear struts and spheres?

Is this necessary? Or can I suck all of the LDS from the reservoir (when depressurised) with a syringe and replace... this would replace a fair bit of it at least.
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes there is Elis - I've emailed the procedure to you - for the circuit that also allows for rear and front axles. Have a read and see what you think - but remember never to get underneath the car without additional support when working on the suspension - the car may depressurise suddenly and will crush you. Always have it properly supported on both sides on flat ground. :wink:
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

And on that note my new LEDs for the side lights have arrived - so off to fit those now. I had a flashing issue with one of them over the last 2 weeks - turned out some of the small LEDs had blown and the resistors weren't doing their job with the reduced power consumption - no wonder traffic in front of me was keeping within the speed limits, probably thought I was an unmarked cop car!
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by EDC5 »

Thanks for that :-D

Yes, I always make sure that there is more than the decision of a Citroen hydraulic electro-valve between me and the bottom of a C5.

Good luck with the LED's. which ones did you get out of interest? you’ll have to let us know if they're any good. I quite fancy a set of LED DLR's myself.

So, according to that procedure you sent, could I in theory undo the pressure release screws then allow the LDS to drain out, then top up with fresh LDS and allow the pump to push new stuff down the lines to purge the old?

https://www.nielsencdg.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh ... ml#SID=115

£7 a litre doesn't seem too bad, cheaper than JWS3309 thankfully :lol:
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

EDC5 wrote: 22 Jul 2017, 12:28 Thanks for that :-D
Yes, I always make sure that there is more than the decision of a Citroen hydraulic electro-valve between me and the bottom of a C5.
I know you probably do :) - just obligated to reiterate - (H&S)!
Good luck with the LED's. which ones did you get out of interest? you’ll have to let us know if they're any good. I quite fancy a set of LED DLR's myself.
Already done the DRLs LED replacement Elis - I have different headlights (Bi-directional Xenons) that have a different setup. The DRL lit below has been LED upgraded, but it is the one next to the projector lens - far right in the picture below that I am changing:
IMG_0896.JPG
So, according to that procedure you sent, could I in theory undo the pressure release screws then allow the LDS to drain out, then top up with fresh LDS and allow the pump to push new stuff down the lines to purge the old?
No Elis - you must never operate or reconnect the battery when working on the circuit or with the valves open as the system will rapidly pressurise. You must not use the pump for this purpose.
https://www.nielsencdg.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh ... ml#SID=115
£7 a litre doesn't seem too bad, cheaper than JWS3309 thankfully :lol:
"Only to be used in Citroen Hydrolastic 3 suspension systems" - Really! And how long is it since British Leyland went to the wall? Hydrolastic! I really wish these companies would do their research. I've just emailed them (OCD kicking in)
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

£10 Amazon, but GSF Parts - extortionately priced as usual at £16.56 a litre - even with their so called 30% discount - still a rip off!
£8.52 from these:
http://www.eurocarcare.net/lds-hydrauli ... id-da.html
These are doing an equivalent product 4 x 1 lt for £29 free delivery:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-1L-Mannol- ... 0528880880
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by EDC5 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 22 Jul 2017, 13:22
EDC5 wrote: 22 Jul 2017, 12:28 Thanks for that :-D

I know you probably do :) - just obligated to reiterate - (H&S)!


Already done the DRLs LED replacement Elis - I have different headlights (Bi-directional Xenons) that have a different setup. The DRL lit below has been LED upgraded, but it is the one next to the projector lens - far right in the picture below that I am changing:
IMG_0896.JPG



No Elis - you must never operate or reconnect the battery when working on the circuit or with the valves open as the system will rapidly pressurise. You must not use the pump for this purpose.


"Only to be used in Citroen Hydrolastic 3 suspension systems" - Really! And how long is it since British Leyland went to the wall? Hydrolastic! I really wish these companies would do their research. I've just emailed them (OCD kicking in)
Image


Fair enough, I was just thinking laterally :)

I love the look of the projector headlights, ideally with HID's but I'm not up to that nightmare of a conversion job so I'll stick with my reflectors :roll:

What DLR bulbs did you use out of interest?

I wonder if you'll get a reply haha.

PS. Just got my V5C through.... was getting a bit concerned to be honest!
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Possible Fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The Xenons are great for going round the Welsh countryside at night with the directional lighting.

I would forget trying to upgrade the lights on these - there's just too much to do and I've not known anyone attempt it because of the expense and time involved.

So, from left to right in the picture:

The Dynamic Bend Lighting - unlike your car which will use a standard H7, mine uses the pain in the A*s HP19W bulbs - these will be my next project in converting these to LEDs - but I will need suitable resistors for these particular lights and they are also a PITA to get free with little room to get to.

Next are the directional Xenon's - these work perfectly for me - I upgraded the stock Xenon bulbs to the Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited Xenarc at £130 for the pair - so I am now a lighthouse on wheels with main beam on at night - excellent range. :-D

Then there are the 'Side Lights' - the innermost position of the cluster. These are a weird type but basically take a W5W stock bulb - yeh, right! Those went straight away, and I now have some of these that I have just fitted. I'll try and get a picture later on for you to see at night:
New Side Light LEDs.png
The design of the light housing and reflector prevents head-on glare as the beam is scattered behind and around, with the front of the bulb blocked by the silver dome you can see in my original picture. So it gives a good dissipated white colour without dazzling oncoming traffic.
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