Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
Moderator: RichardW
Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
After many weeks of trying to get the remains of the elbow off of the heater matrix inlet/outlet it seems that they are fused.
I don't have the time or the will to be changing the matrix and I'm certainly not paying half the price I paid for the car for a plastic elbow.
So I have decided to fabricate something to do it's job.
At the moment I have just over half of the elbow still attached to the matrix and it seems to be structurally sound compared to the lower end which disintegrated.
My intention is to glue either pcopper or plastic central heating pipe into the remains and put the rubber hoses directly onto the new pipes with hose clips.
The question is does anyone know of a suitable adhesive for the job of bonding copper of plastic pipe to what I assume is an ABS elbow?
This is a very urgent repair as I cannot stand having the car without heaters and am rapidly falling out with it. I do the majority of my driving at night, with open windows and heaters on full blast. Driving in a coat and 2 jumpers with the windows closed is not fun for me.
I don't have the time or the will to be changing the matrix and I'm certainly not paying half the price I paid for the car for a plastic elbow.
So I have decided to fabricate something to do it's job.
At the moment I have just over half of the elbow still attached to the matrix and it seems to be structurally sound compared to the lower end which disintegrated.
My intention is to glue either pcopper or plastic central heating pipe into the remains and put the rubber hoses directly onto the new pipes with hose clips.
The question is does anyone know of a suitable adhesive for the job of bonding copper of plastic pipe to what I assume is an ABS elbow?
This is a very urgent repair as I cannot stand having the car without heaters and am rapidly falling out with it. I do the majority of my driving at night, with open windows and heaters on full blast. Driving in a coat and 2 jumpers with the windows closed is not fun for me.
- xantia_v6
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 9053
- Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 22:03
- Location: France or NewZealand
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ) - x 825
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
I don't fancy you chances of making this work. The plastic fitting will be glass filled nylon, which doesn't have a solvent glue, and most of the glues that will stick to it won't take the heat and moisture for long periods. See https://www.polyvance.com/radiator.php for details of some difficulties.
Have you tried warming the fitting with a hot air gun before pulling?
Have you tried warming the fitting with a hot air gun before pulling?
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
Yes it's had heat over and over again, the elbow and the matrix pipes are now one piece.
I considered going in with a jr hacksaw blade but without removing the engine I don't fancy the chances that way either.
Is the elbow definitely glass filled Nylon? It feels a lot more like ABS than Nylon to me compared with things I've 3d printed. I've never used a glass filled Nylon though so could easily be thrown off track.
I can answer my own question, it clearly is not ABS. I believed ABS was good up to about 200 degrees C but alas no it's glass transition temp (new thing to me) is 105 degrees C so it could not be used for this part.
I considered going in with a jr hacksaw blade but without removing the engine I don't fancy the chances that way either.
Is the elbow definitely glass filled Nylon? It feels a lot more like ABS than Nylon to me compared with things I've 3d printed. I've never used a glass filled Nylon though so could easily be thrown off track.
I can answer my own question, it clearly is not ABS. I believed ABS was good up to about 200 degrees C but alas no it's glass transition temp (new thing to me) is 105 degrees C so it could not be used for this part.
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10411
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1280
- Contact:
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
Will it take a thread ?.....that would be my choice.
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
A threads impossible on what I have left. The internal profile is not straight..
Looks like a new matrix or scrap the damn thing.
Looks like a new matrix or scrap the damn thing.
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
Can anything be made from stainless? Elbows and bends are available for header tubes and the like.
Citroen C5 1.6 HDI 110bhp Estate 06 plate
French Mistresses gone.
Citroen C5 HDI Mk 1 hatchback
Vel Satis 3.5 v6
ZX 1.9D Est.
ZX 1.9DHatch
Xantia 1.9td est.
Xantia 2.0 hdi Est.
Xantia V6 MK1
Xantia V6 MK 2
French Mistresses gone.
Citroen C5 HDI Mk 1 hatchback
Vel Satis 3.5 v6
ZX 1.9D Est.
ZX 1.9DHatch
Xantia 1.9td est.
Xantia 2.0 hdi Est.
Xantia V6 MK1
Xantia V6 MK 2
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10411
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1280
- Contact:
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
I have a car here you can practice on mate.....let me look at it tomorrow and try a couple of things.
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
Thanks buddy, I'll take some pictures tomorrow so you can see what I'm up against.
Sorry btw for not messaging you re visiting, long week.
I'm free 3 weekends out of the next 4 but I don't know which at the moment.
Your sockets will work soon!
Sorry btw for not messaging you re visiting, long week.
I'm free 3 weekends out of the next 4 but I don't know which at the moment.
Your sockets will work soon!
-
- Forum Treasurer
- Posts: 10814
- Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl - x 984
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
Stixall?
Tech data says OK to 100°C - not often you are above that in a cooling system, so might well be OK...
Tech data says OK to 100°C - not often you are above that in a cooling system, so might well be OK...
Richard W
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
That is an interesting product.
I'm not sure weather it would work on this material having read the link Mike put up.
Could be worth a try if no other options materialise, I've bookmarked the page
I think I may end up changing a perfectly good matrix over this and I'm none too impressed about it.
I won't pay £90 for a plastic elbow so will still have to improvise something.
Lets hope a solution comes up, I'm sorely tempted to give up and get a Van.
I'm not sure weather it would work on this material having read the link Mike put up.
Could be worth a try if no other options materialise, I've bookmarked the page
I think I may end up changing a perfectly good matrix over this and I'm none too impressed about it.
I won't pay £90 for a plastic elbow so will still have to improvise something.
Lets hope a solution comes up, I'm sorely tempted to give up and get a Van.
-
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 1810
- Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
- Location: Congleton
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
I've used Loctite chemical metal on numerous "projects" (read emergency bodges that lasted!) and I have no reason to believe it wouldn't work if used in copious quantities on this job. It stemmed the leak on a crumbled heater valve on a Fiesta amongst other things, also reattached the governor stop screw on the ZX pump after I bashed it off de-armouring it
What I would say, is if there's any doubt over it's ability to bond to the plastic, you could surely "smear" it around corners/ridges etc in such a way that when cured it physically couldn't come out even if the bond failed.
That said though, I do think it'd work fine... There's a datasheet for the stuff here & it seems OK on mild steel to +160c
EDIT-: oops forgot the link... http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/45057.pdf
Certainly don't give up, or if you really must then join the heater pipes to bypass the matrix & drive the car to us and we'll rescue the thing lol
What I would say, is if there's any doubt over it's ability to bond to the plastic, you could surely "smear" it around corners/ridges etc in such a way that when cured it physically couldn't come out even if the bond failed.
That said though, I do think it'd work fine... There's a datasheet for the stuff here & it seems OK on mild steel to +160c
EDIT-: oops forgot the link... http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/45057.pdf
Certainly don't give up, or if you really must then join the heater pipes to bypass the matrix & drive the car to us and we'll rescue the thing lol
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
I won't give up, just demoralised with it.
Most likely plan at the mo it's is get the cheapest van possible to use and put the Xantia in the barn until it is sorted.
The fact that I haven't got any tools has not helped.
The matrix is already bypassed which is the main reason I currently despise driving.
Most likely plan at the mo it's is get the cheapest van possible to use and put the Xantia in the barn until it is sorted.
The fact that I haven't got any tools has not helped.
The matrix is already bypassed which is the main reason I currently despise driving.
-
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 1810
- Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
- Location: Congleton
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
Oh, and there's no need for a heater in this weather of late! Or is it more the knowledge that it's not right that's doing your head in?elma wrote:I won't give up, just demoralised with it. Good, stick with it & it'll be good in the end... (actually, if the bit you need could be removed from a breaker I do want to go see an estate in a scrappy soon if you'd like me to have a go at removing in one piece?)
Most likely plan at the mo it's is get the cheapest van possible to use and put the Xantia in the barn until it is sorted. Of this plan I am jealous, I want a barn for project storage!
The fact that I haven't got any tools has not helped. Of this statement I am not at all jealous! how come you're sans-tools? I'd go nuts without 'em!
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49534
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6163
- Contact:
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
ekjdm14 wrote: Oh, and there's no need for a heater in this weather of late!
That's true! I ran a V6 Xantia with a bypassed matrix from about now until late in the autumn with no worries at all a few years ago...
Global warming and all that...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2499
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
- Location: Letham, Fife
- My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: Need to improvise repair for heater matrix elbow
How much rubber left from the bulkhead. As I have some hoses and plastic connectors sitting the garage doing nothing which I found fitted over the matrix hoses on my mk 2 estate.
Kenny
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.