Berlingo 1.6hdi issue

[richw]

Hi All,

A month ago we purchased a Berlingo multispace. It drives very well, pulls like a train, and is overall very good EXCEPT that it is burning oil at a very alarming rate. It smokes, most noticeably on acceleration soon after starting the car, and continues to smoke less visibly whilst driving. On a recent 300 mile round trip we had to top up the oil several times totalling over 2 litres.

I took it to our local garage who found enough play in the turbo to suggest that was the cause of the oil getting burnt. However a new (refurbished) turbo did not rectify the problem, so I read about the problem as much as I could and asked the garage to check the PCV valve and look for oil in the intercooler. The PCV was a little dirty but seemed to be working fine, and there was only a small amount of oil in the intercooler, which they cleaned. That was a few days ago.

We've just driven 60 miles and the oil level has fallen a little already (measured on flat with engine hot both times). There was smoke visible again, particularly on acceleration soon after starting.


I like the car, and at such a low milage for its age, seems a shame to get rid of it. However, I obviously don't want to spend much more on it and can't continue using oil at the current rate, so any suggestions of what could be the source of this oil getting burnt would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

[ekjdm14]

has the garage looked at the new turbo? there is obviously known problems with these engines eating turbos due to a strainer in the oil feed that blocks resulting in rapid wear of the turbo. Most new/recon turbos come with the proviso that they are only fitted to a rebuilt engine or the warranty is invalidated, but I believe you can also just remove the strainer from the turbo feed pipe and this helps.

Obviously it may not be the turbo given what you've said but that would always be my first point to check on a 1.6HDi, another cause for heavy oil smoke particularly on startup would be valve stem seals or the valve guided themselves & this would not show up as oil in the intake tract as it goes straight through the cylinder. That is a hell of a lot of oil being used though and I would expect it to show as either bore/ring problems or turbo seals if it's not leaking out.

Those who know much more about this engine will hopefully have some less gloomy suggestions, but personally I feel it's going to cost again to sort the issue.

[Bick]

As ekjdm14 ^^^ says turbos have been known to be a problem if not serviced correctly and gums up the turbo oil feed pipe. But i would have thought if it was the turbo it would be giving other symptoms e.g. Down on power or engine light on due to incorrect boost.

Valve seals tend to give a very large instant puff of smoke at startup then clears and a engine would not burn that much oil due to worn valve seals.

If it really does burn that much oil and the turbo is okay you are looking at serious bore/piston problems. That would mean a new second hand engine due to the cost of a repair unless you do as much work as you can yourself.

[ekjdm14]

Also (and sorry to continue being so negative) I've noticed only two "types" of 1.6HDi on this forum, those that have completed huge mileage with no problems and those that are a continual pain in the proverbial... Perhaps as Bick suggests it'd be better to find a crashed/scrapped vehicle with the same engine code that's a good runner with higher miles.

Over 150k on the clock is nothing to worry about with modern engines if they've been looked after so don't be put off by a mega miler with good history. And I hear tell of more than a few 1.6HDi units in vans with well over 300k on original turbos/clutches and the like so the "good ones" are very good (I think one of our members knows of one that had nearly 300k on the clock at its first MoT, 100k per year!)

Certainly don't be put off if the rest of the vehicle is good and suited to your needs, just find a known good engine and keep up the services.

[jimmymarsbar]

See "PSA 1.6HDI Turbo Fitting" at http://www.diagnosticshub.com/resources, I agree with what the other guys have said about the turbo.

We have a 307sw with the 1.6hdi at work, and it suffered exactly the same issues. On top of the smoke and oil useage, the EGR and manifolds were heavily coked up, the DPF was at 95% build up, and it's blown 2 turbos.

The 1.6hdi needs to be nursed (I'm not suggesting that you've not cared for the motor ), they're a very sensitive engine

[Paul-R]

Can we be clear here that all this talk of "delicate" engines only refers to the 16v HDi engine and not to the later 8v HDi engine. This is almost a complete redesign of the top end and turbo.

[Bick]

Can we be clear here that all this talk of "delicate" engines only refers to the 16v HDi engine and not to the later 8v HDi engine. This is almost a complete redesign of the top end and turbo.

If you like Paul but i dont think the 16v is a delicate engine, loads on the road with high mileage without any problems. However i do agree that servicing and the correct oil is more crucial on the 16v engines than other engines.

[richw]

Thanks for the replies everyone, very helpful.

I was careful to ask the garage to install the replacement turbo correctly and when it had the PCV checked a few days ago, I also asked them to check the intercooler, which they said had a light film of oil, but nothing to indicate the size of leak necessary to lose 2 litres so fast.

What options do I have going forward then? I'm close to just selling it, which seems a shame, so any suggestions would be welcome.

Many thanks,

Rich

[ekjdm14]

Well, if it were me & the car was well suited to my needs/good shape in general then I'd replace the engine with a known good higher mileage unit and keep the old one for spares on the basis that "if I have it, I'm less likely to need it" (otherwise known as sods law, or scrapping the worn engine and asking for trouble lol)

Depends how you feel about the car largely, is it worth an engine swap or would you rather take the hit, sell it on and get something else that may or may not be problem free? Sorry it's been such a rough introduction to the HDi, but by and large they are great engines and certainly on a par with the old XUD when maintained correctly.

[richw]

Hi All,

Thought I'd update with my (lack of) progress.

I have now tried the following:
-Purchased new dipstick. Sadly it shows the same as the old one.
-Oil system flush. I put in the flush, ran the engine for 10 mins, left over night, ran for another 10 mins and then did an oil/filter change.
-Fuel system flush. I added a bottle of wynns xtreme diesel system cleaner to a 1/4 tank of fuel.

I then ran the car for 20 mins and measured the oil, which was 2 crosses below full. I Drove a 55 mile round trip and then measured the oil, which was now down 5 crosses below full.

Clearly there is still a huge oil leak somewhere inside the engine. I think at this stage I can rule out DPC, Turbo, and physical leaks out of the block.

The symptoms are still white smoke out of the exhaust. The smoke is most apparent after you sit at 1-2000 revs for a while and then give it a hard rev, which causes a plume of white from the exhaust. When driving along normally, it is hard to see smoke out the back unless you really accelerate hard, but presumably the leak is happening constantly, and the plume of smoke is oil burning off from the exhaust under load/heat.

The only other seemingly affordable issue I can attempt to remedy is the potential loose injectors that have been reported as a known fault. But are the symptoms at all consistent with a loose injector?

Any advice or further suggestions would be much appreciated,

Regards,

Rich

[lexi]

You need to do a compression test and get some readings. If the readings are good, go back to the turbo. Some turbos that are not genuine replacements don't work properly. I would drop the sump also and clean it out.

[RichardW]

White smoke is vaporised rather than burnt oil, which would point to the exhaust side seal on the turbo to me.....

[ekjdm14]

As per RichardW, I'd suggest the turbo's exhaust side is dumping oil. I'd want to be careful about doing too many miles in it if that's the case since if the inlet side seal dies as well there's a very real chance the engine could run away on it's own sump oil. I think the next job is to drop the exhaust downpipe off and see what that looks like.

What turbo was fitted when it was replaced, I notice you said it was a refurbished unit, which company did the refurb? there's a lot of people out there now with the physical ability and tools to fit new bearings/seals to a worn turbo but without the equipment to check the housings for viability or the knowledge to do it effectively.

I fear you've either had a duff replacement or the garage haven't followed the replacement regime to the letter (who'd want to really? Pull the sump/oil pump and turbo pipes off, get all dirty and replace more parts OR just clean any visible crap out of the pipework and bolt the new turbo on, I know which sounds easier)

A thought I did have is if the oil return from the turbo is damaged/blocked in any way it could cause oil to be forced to bypass even good seals, this could maybe explain why a new turbo failed to cure the issue for even a short time. I'd probably look into that before injectors since they won't cause oil loss, and the turbo may even be saveable if it is just a blockage in the return line

[Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur]

I know nothing about these engines, but a potentially helpful suggestion. With a second car & driver, ideally one with a DashCam fitted, follow the vehicle for a period of time; while perhaps also staying in contact on a hands free mobile. It'll give you an opportunity to see what's going on at the exhaust.

Also, having watched some Youtube videos recently about 'Runaway Diesels' I note that the way to stop one is to block the air intake, thus starving it of air and stopping the engine: would make sense to know how to do this, for peace of mind.

[ekjdm14]

Yes indeed, may be a good idea if the car must be used to familiarise yourself with the easiest method of choking the intake and carry the tools required in the passenger footwell for easy access. I had the intake hose loose and a bit of ply handy when I started the 3 cylinder XUD for the first time lol. Probably pop the hose off the intake (centre hole) of the turbo and block it with a bit of plywood would work on this engine.

Never try to stall a runaway diesel, as all you'll likely do is burn the clutch out or damage the gearbox!