Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

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Dom_81
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 16 May 2017, 16:23

The engine is from a 110 Xsara which was owned by a customer of my garage till the head gasket went. The garage took the car and did the gasket plus timing belt as the engine was good and low miles, to use as a courtesy car. Then a customer wrote it off... so should be a good engine, hopefully as good as mine which really purrs along, especially with a chip and minus EGR (removed by previous owner)

The issue i have with trying to backflush the system is, this stuff solidifies and turns to glass..... it could be anywhere in the system. So if i pay for flushing, new rad, new matrix... ... and head gasket which still would need to be done, only to find that the car still overheats (due to blocked galleries) then the pump goes (this stuff destroys the seals on the pump).... i'll kick myself even harder and I've had enough of kicking myself for a while!

My only concern is, how long has the engine been stored... I forgot to ask. If its been more than a year should I be worried about damage caused by storage or are these HDI engines hardy enough to withstand? I'm dreading starting the car after the swap and hearing that the injectors make that annoying ticking sound under load, or worn seals or whatever..... I may swap the injectors from this engine or fork out for reconditioned ones like i did for my previous Xantia (which I would love to get my hands on but there is a funny story about why I can't)
I spend a lot of time in the car so like it to drive like new.
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Stickyfinger
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Stickyfinger » 16 May 2017, 18:47

I do not think the sealant "Turn to glass".....they block passageways due to the particle size and the resultant conglomeration of those particles. Without a "drying process" I do not think they "harden or set".

Fernox F3 actively dissolves "sludge" into the smaller particles the material originally formed from and allows it to be suspended...... it works best when used via a back flush pump which I think you can hire from some tool shops or maybe borrow from a plumber. I would think it is a "no loss try"
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white exec
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by white exec » 16 May 2017, 19:41

My understanding is that most leak sealers work by remaining in solution, but hardening when they have air contact - thus a weep becomes plugged. In a system which has been kept properly bled, blocking ought not to be a problem, unless air has been let in, or the sealant wasn't up to much to start with.

Interesting recommendation of Fernox F3. I used Fernox (MB1 or 3 ?) many times in CH systems in the UK, and it was excellent stuff. Interestingly, my current Peugeot-Citroen 'Pro' coolant has the same very distinctive sickly-sweet smell, which soon alerts you to a leak! It is manufactured for PSA by Brugarolas in Spain.
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 16 May 2017, 20:11

I've been researching this stuff and it's sodium silicate which when heated and in contact with certain pH it becomes sodium silicate gel which gets thicker and harder when it's roasted and heated.. once it's hardened then no chemical will dissolve it.
I hear that lye/caustic soda helps to clean gel but when it contacts aluminium (radiator and heater core) it produces hydrogen gas!
I'm reading review's on amazon of pipes being solid with glassy residue and people saying water galleries clogged with no circulation.
Im tempted to try flushing. But would be difficult if the radiator isn't letting water though right?
Hmm thinking about it we could use the radiator from the wrecked xsara if it's not damaged..

The only thing is... the engine block is leaking a bit of oil.. not sure if it came from the filler cap.. or the gasket. Does that mean the engine is damaged?
It just seems labour for gasket and engine swap are the same..
With the mileage I do I need to know the cars reliable. .
That said this might be worth a try..
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Dom_81
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 16 May 2017, 20:12

I'll check out that Fernox 3.. certainly something fairly aggressive would be needed
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 16 May 2017, 20:49

I'm reading more stories of people who flushed the system, changed the rad and matrix.. fixed head gasket and skimmed the head.. only to find the car still overheats..
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Stickyfinger » 16 May 2017, 21:27

but for what reason, and how did they "flush".


As I said, if you think you will change it then it is no risk and only a benefit if it works.
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 17 May 2017, 18:31

They say the xsara engine has been stored for just 12 months. So 150 for the engine plus 800 or so to fit including putting my injectors and hp pump on.

I could try flushing and run for a month. If there's no additional overheating then consider doing the gasket.. though probably I've made the gasket a lot worse by using the car.. but then there's the memory of this stuff in my car which could manifest as a leaky pump at an awkward time such as when driving to Switzerland in august.

I would have flushed the system myself right away but couldn't see the bleed screw and thought I might do it wrong.. but i guess there's nothing to lose by trying. Does anyone know of a step by step guide for flushing.. with pics ideally. I'll look on YouTube also
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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by CitroJim » 17 May 2017, 18:36

As long as it's been stored in the dry it should be fine...
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by ekjdm14 » 17 May 2017, 20:44

CitroJim wrote:As long as it's been stored in the dry it should be fine...


Indeed, storage conditions play a large part in how long an engine will last laid up. Our replacement XUD had been in a shed with rubber gloves over intake & exhaust, oil still in sump + fuel lines plugged for a few years and is fine. In fact it runs as well as one with half the claimed mileage.

I'd would hope the garage know how to store an engine, as long as the above things are true of it then I imagine it'll be fine. Just make sure you tell the garage to attend to any other bits like rack gaiters or heater elbow while the engine is out! :-D even more important if you're paying for labour, as these little niggly jobs are a heck of a lot quicker and easier without impaired access, same goes for swapping over your cambelt kit if you do that.
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 17 May 2017, 23:43

Yes it's been in the main garage.. I guess if it's dry enough to store tools then it's dry enough for an engine.
And yes, it certainly makes sense to do niggly jobs while there easy access on a plate.

Still I'm curious about the fernox stuff. I can't seem to stop being attracted by potential miracle fixes in a bottle!
I could flush with the fernox then run for 100 miles or so on plain distilled water.. then if it's overheating and puking oil from the gasket (which it wasn't doing previously) then I havent waste money on coolant. If however it's not overheating and not leaking oil.. then maybe flush again to be sure, fill up with coolant and then if all is still good even on hot days... think about doing the gasket.
The spare engine isn't going anywhere and it's a few months till I go abroad..
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 28 Jun 2017, 13:53

Just a quick update... The coolant system was flushed as encouraged by members in previous posts. It seems the damage wasn't as extensive as I'd originally assumed. The radiator was ok and LUCKILY the heater matrix wasn't blocked but instead had only an airlock which was easily remedied! So I decided to go ahead and take a chance on getting the head gasket done...... The head was skimmed and steel seal gunk cleaned from the cooling galleries.. the water pump needed to be replaced as gunk had accumulated there and was escaping onto the timing belt cover. The first gasket failed and coolant was leaking into the oil... but was done a second time at no extra cost to myself and engine was flushed.. now even after 1k miles the oil is still oil coloured and not black..
On a very hot day and on a long road trip the engine temp did creep above 90 in traffic que... the engine fans didn't kick in so maybe I need to get that looked into... I bled heat through the heater so the car was like a sauna! and then put the AC on so the fans kicked in when needed. So all in all, so far so good.... again, thanks for all the input and suggestions and I think the right decision was made in the end!
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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by CitroJim » 28 Jun 2017, 14:03

Dom, an excellent result!

Yes, do get those fans sorted out as they are a weak point on a Xantia and might be the reason for all your past problems...

There are lots of posts on here about fans and how to sort them out...
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by ekjdm14 » 28 Jun 2017, 14:06

Good to hear you seem to have it sorted, but I would jump on that fan switch as soon as possible if it's not kicking the fan on correctly since that (overheating in traffic) could've been the cause of the original HG failure. Until then, keep an eagle eye on that temp gauge and take action as appropriate.

I think as the AC kicks the fans in, the motors/wiring etc are likely to be good so possibly just that switch.

EDIT-: Jim, you beat me to it! must practise my speed typing lol
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by RichardW » 28 Jun 2017, 15:03

HDi first stage fan is something like 95, 2nd stage about 110 - quite alarming when you see it on the gauge... Had high speed fans on the Xantia once - sat in traffic on hot day without AC on, SWMBO didn't want it on for some reason; eventually decided to put it on, with engine temp over 100 - got high speed fans; thought it was going to take off!!
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