Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

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Dom_81
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Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 19 Jan 2017, 18:01

Greentings.. this is my first post here.. but I've been lurking for years now. Having owned 5 Xantias including the present one, this place has been a valuable resource for me!

So, I've got a good, well maintained Xantia HDI 110 with 100k on the clock. The ride was awful when purchased in Sept last year, so replaced all the spheres, flushed the system for 2k miles and then new LHM after cleaning the filters... Still not right so replaced front and rear height correctors with new ones.. Ride is still not right! Its non-hydractive and the height correctors seem to be working properly...
I believe the issue may be related to rear-arm bearing or something like that. Front of the car is perfect (4 fingers between tyre and wheel arch), rear offside is also perfect (1 finger).... however rear near-side is often too high (it is not uncommon for there to be a 2-finger gap). It will sometimes settle to the correct height for no apparent reason and ride will be perfect or very good at least.

My gargae in Tavistock (citroen specialists) say the trail arm bearings (if that's the right name) seem to be fine as there is plenty of play and the wheels lift up and down and move freely.... I was wondering could there be an intermittent issue there? Or, something to do with the brake control valve or the anti-sink valve? Its wierd because with new LHM, height correctors and spheres I'd expect it to be working perfectly.

Any input is gratefully received!

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by CitroJim » 19 Jan 2017, 19:18

Welcome!

I've seen it where the wheelarch gap is wrong on one side and invariably it's juts a bit of tolerance in the wing arch roll mouldings and nothing to worry about. Height per side should be measured from the subframes...

The rear arm bearings are perfect is they move freely, make no groaning/creaking noises and the rear wheels show no excessive or differing negative camber...

It may simply be the new spheres are of the wrong specification and/or are duff. The supply of the wrong ones seems quite common nowadays and the likelihood of them being duff is less likely but possible...

Many nowadays seem to think that all green balls are the same and don't appreciate there is a massive range for differing applications. For instance, if you were supplied spheres for a Hydractive car then the ride on a non-Hydractive would be less than good. Ditto if fronts are installed at the rear and vice-versa.

How soft does it seem when you do a manual bounce test as if you were testing shock absorbers on a conventional car?

Are the height correctors working absolutely properly? Test by sitting in the tailgate with the engine running and seeing that as the suspension goes down under your weight it then corrects back after 20s or so. Repeat for the rise when you get out and then repeat at the front by sitting on the slam panel. Be aware that the front is naturally firmer than the rear. The rear should be very soft and easy to depress under your weight.

Is the accumulator sphere good?

Both can make a heck of a difference...

citroenxm
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by citroenxm » 20 Jan 2017, 06:41

And if you got the spheres from gsf ive had flat or duff spheres from them too. I dont rate the amtek spheres at all.. the best are aep direct also known as citroen services in glasgow.. they supply ifhs spheres which have always been perfect for me...

elma
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by elma » 20 Jan 2017, 13:44

I rate IFHS as well, I buy them direct from their own website.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 20 Jan 2017, 13:58

I have bought spheres from AEP Direct (and I would in the future), and they have been very helpful and thorough (in my experience). The first time I bought from them there was a delay, as they contacted me via e-mail to confirm my vehicle details. Second time I made sure they had the full details, so no delay. They also did not charge P&P for purchases over £50.

Dom_81
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 28 Mar 2017, 07:23

Wow thanks for all the replies. And I'm sorry I let the conversation drop.

To answer all the questions as best as possible:

I don't think the wheel arch gap is wrong as this seems like an intermittent issue.. occasionally it will settle down the the correct height (ie to the same 1-finger gap of the offside). And when parked up for a while.. there will normally be a 1 finger gap on both sides after initially being too high on the nearside.

Spheres are lizarte and I think are correct ones as when the car does occasionally settle to the correct height.. the ride feels spot on.

Accumulator sphere is brand new.

Height correctors are brand new and working correctly..

So I'm wondering if it might be an issue with the rear brakes as I understand they are connected to the rear suspension..
There's no creaking coming from the arm bearigs and no camber so it's all a bit of a mystery!

Thanks anyway for all the replies :)

ekjdm14
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by ekjdm14 » 28 Mar 2017, 12:12

Lizarte spheres don't have a great reputation, I know from experience a new Lizarte accumulator on the XM was better than the one that came off but still very low on pressure compared to what it should have been.

Perhaps there's a member or specialist nearby who could have the spheres off and pressure test them/check the damper holes before suspecting anything to do with brakes, I think if a brake was dragging you'd notice other symptoms and also you'd get differing gaps depending whether you last moved forward or backward, and it'd correct itself once the handbrake was released too. My money would be on the spheres still, if indeed there is a problem.

Dom_81
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 14 May 2017, 17:09

Thanks for your reply.. The suspension magically righted itself and the ride is perfect. I now have a much bigger problem whereby I stupidly used some head gasket sealer - this seems to have wrecked the cooling system...

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chinkostu
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by chinkostu » 14 May 2017, 20:10

Dom_81 wrote:Thanks for your reply.. The suspension magically righted itself and the ride is perfect. I now have a much bigger problem whereby I stupidly used some head gasket sealer - this seems to have wrecked the cooling system...


Blocked the matrix? The only one we seem to see recommended is Forte, as valeo recommend it. Unfortunately I don't think its easy to flush steelseal/kfix and the like out. What symptoms you having?

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by CitroJim » 15 May 2017, 17:27

chinkostu wrote:
Dom_81 wrote:Thanks for your reply.. The suspension magically righted itself and the ride is perfect. I now have a much bigger problem whereby I stupidly used some head gasket sealer - this seems to have wrecked the cooling system...


Blocked the matrix? The only one we seem to see recommended is Forte, as valeo recommend it. Unfortunately I don't think its easy to flush steelseal/kfix and the like out. What symptoms you having?


Yes, Forte Stop leak is the only one to use in a Xantia...

In addition, you'll likely find the heater matrix elbow coupling will now be welded together solidly... K-Seal and the like seems to do that in my experience - that could make replacement fun should you ever find it necessary...

Dom_81
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 15 May 2017, 20:55

@ chinkostu.... Well the main symptom is overheating. If i stay at a slow and steady speed so the engine is 'air cooled' then temperature stays ok.. Now the temperature guage seems to be behaving and does'nt go above 90 even if i go a touch faster, I'm thinking its because this stuff has gunked up the thermostat.. So with blocked matrix, blocked matrix and probably all the little water galleries.... plus the fact the head gasket still needs to be done.. It looks like the car is a write off. I can't believe this stuff is sold legally, the instructions on the bottle are wrong and should specify that it won't work with antifreeze.. really gutted after all the time and money i put into this car and the body work is so clean too. Was even thinking about an engine swap but not really viable. I'll try and flush all this stuff out tomorrow... see if there is any circulation...

Dom_81
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 15 May 2017, 20:56

CitroJim wrote:
chinkostu wrote:
Dom_81 wrote:Thanks for your reply.. The suspension magically righted itself and the ride is perfect. I now have a much bigger problem whereby I stupidly used some head gasket sealer - this seems to have wrecked the cooling system...


Blocked the matrix? The only one we seem to see recommended is Forte, as valeo recommend it. Unfortunately I don't think its easy to flush steelseal/kfix and the like out. What symptoms you having?


Yes, Forte Stop leak is the only one to use in a Xantia...

In addition, you'll likely find the heater matrix elbow coupling will now be welded together solidly... K-Seal and the like seems to do that in my experience - that could make replacement fun should you ever find it necessary...


These products are a nightmare - I wish I'd done more research - I still can't believe i poured this stuff into my car!

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Stickyfinger » 15 May 2017, 20:59

A Back flush with a good central heating cleaner (Fernox-F3) may just work.....

If it has an oil cooler there is a chance that is also blocked :(

Dom_81
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by Dom_81 » 16 May 2017, 12:26

I think if I'd realised immediately that this stuff turns to gel which begins to harden with heat and time and had flushed the system immediately then I may have had a chance. Flushing system repeatedly then replacing radiator and heater core is a lot of time and money when there is no guarantee that other damage hasn't been done.

My garage has an engine from a wrecked courtesy car. . Similar milage as my car and had head gasket already done.. I've already got a new radiator incase old one is dodgey. Shake i just had timing belt done on mine!
I figure I've done the brakes, suspension and bodywork on my car.. if I buy another it'll cost same or more as the engine swap and ill have to fix any issue's it may have

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia 110 HDI - rear suspension

Post by CitroJim » 16 May 2017, 13:30

Dom_81 wrote:I figure I've done the brakes, suspension and bodywork on my car.. if I buy another it'll cost same or more as the engine swap and ill have to fix any issue's it may have


Good way to look at it... All the hard work is done and if a replacement engine is available then that is the way to go...

You can always recover the cambelt stuff from the old engine and reuse it on the new if it's not done many miles.. Just refit the belt so it continues to run in the same direction...

Try a good reverse flush as Alasdair suggests first though, you never know... Nothing ventured, nothing gained...

Do let us all know how it goes...