Non starting Pics

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Eddie Nuff
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Non starting Pics

Post by Eddie Nuff » 28 Dec 2016, 13:51

I've been seeing a lot of C4 Picasso's of late, in my search for a replacement for swmbo's knackered Focus, with non-starting issues. Some have no info on the dash, some all the electronics work but it still doesn't want to know. Is there a general fault with these cars or is a session on Lexia a must in order to find and fix?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by GiveMeABreak » 28 Dec 2016, 13:59

You've answered your question I think! A Lexia session has to be the starting place. Not everyone has a Lexia, and many garages just use a generic code reader - which isn't much help on a PSA vehicle, so a Lexia will likely give you good heads up on any issues - although be prepared that some secondary faults can be reported based on a primary fault - so process of elimination is needed.

The only thing with these MPVs is that everything is crammed in tight!

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Non starting Pics

Post by Eddie Nuff » 29 Dec 2016, 18:40

Lexia has been ok up to now but the laptop died a death a fortnight ago so need to find another. Thought I had the problem solved when I bought a VIDA system for Volvo but that laptop runs 64 bit and CMIIW Lexia runs on 32 bit.

One C4GP I am looking at has a knackered engine. Any problems on the engine from the Focus fitting into the Pic? I assume the front end will have to come off?

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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 29 Dec 2016, 18:45

While I cannot explain how to do this, some people have managed to create a 32bit Virtual Machine on a 64bit O/S system and run the Lexia that way (I do know the VR system must have clean access to the USB systems for it to work).

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Non starting Pics

Post by Eddie Nuff » 29 Dec 2016, 21:18

That's way above my pay grade James. Much simpler for me to have two laptops.

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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by elma » 30 Dec 2016, 10:32

That's my level with PCs too, I don't like them enough to put any effort into advancing my skills.

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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by RichardW » 31 Dec 2016, 10:59

There's a blue wire comes off the top of the battery that feeds power to the ecu which is prone to rotting, resulting in a non start situation. Engine, of 1.6 hid is similar to the Focus engine, should be swappable. Official route is out the bottom, however I reckon it would be easier out the front as a diy job. You will need to get the a.c. drained as I don't think there is enough room to move the compressor aside. There's loads about though, so I'd go looking for one without issues, unless you need it to be user cheap! Oh, and don't buy an egos unless you really have to!!!

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Non starting Pics

Post by Eddie Nuff » 31 Dec 2016, 16:49

I don't have the facilities to drop the engine out of the bottom so it looks like front end off - if that particular Pic comes off.

Blue wire is interesting, one to remember.

As a born and bred Yorkshireman I never spend too much on cars - they aren't worth it! Prefer to buy something cheap that needs work, that way I know it's been done.

And as for the egs gearbox, madam won't entertain an automatic never mind one with the flippy flappy paddles! It will only be a manual box for her, good decision considering how dire the auto box is in these cars!

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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by Old-Guy » 31 Dec 2016, 20:01

*Ach, Crivens! Waily waily!

Not what I wanted to hear as I've just bought a Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi. On an 11-plate, so the later DV6C 8V Euro 5 engine and the 6-speed manual box (with reverse in the 'wrong' place). Before deciding to look for one, I did a lot of research, particularly on engines; with less than 60,000 on the clock I hope I won't regret the decision. The most expensive used car I've ever bought (and more expensive than either of my first two new company cars in the 1980s!).

I'd be very wary of trying an inter-make engine transplant - the engine may be the same type, made in the same plant, but there are not just Ford, Peugeot and Citroen variants, but variants within the same car model. To me, the chances seem high of encountering problems getting engine ECUs to work with an engine from an alien make and model of vehicle even if the engine is fundamentally the same.

Given the 16V DV6TED4's reputation for turbo failures, it's perhaps not surprising that Citroen have issued a 'special procedure' for oil changes on the DV6 engines, "...so as to ensure that no used oil remains to mix with the new oil." :rofl2: I can just see a workshop manager allowing a total of 15 minutes standing around waiting during an oil-and-filter service!

*No I'm not red-haired, tiny and wearing a kilt. (Terry Pratchett fans will understand)
Last edited by Old-Guy on 31 Dec 2016, 20:32, edited 2 times in total.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 31 Dec 2016, 20:02

So you are just Wee Mad Arthur then? You cannot be Horace as you spoke!

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Non starting Pics

Post by Eddie Nuff » 31 Dec 2016, 22:02

Now that's a variant I would buy OG, the older style car with the newer engine. The 8v is a different animal, arguably the engine they should have produced in the first place.

Point taken regarding the 'different' engine types.

I've read that instruction manual and I see it as just a way of them insuring themselves against the very problem they shouldn't have created in the first place.

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Re:

Post by Old-Guy » 31 Dec 2016, 22:58

Eddie Nuff wrote:Now that's a variant I would buy OG, the older style car with the newer engine. The 8v is a different animal, arguably the engine they should have produced in the first place.

Point taken regarding the 'different' engine types.

I've read that instruction manual and I see it as just a way of them insuring themselves against the very problem they shouldn't have created in the first place.
There are quite a few (2011-on) facelift GC4Ps with the LED sidelights Mk1s around - the VTR+ 1.6HDi being bt far the most popular. Indy's offer better bargains and better service in my experience. For facelift 60-plate and 11-plate examples, I have seen as little as £4,995 asked for an 11-plate with 108k on it, to £8240 for a 61-plate with 34k. The Citroen dealers I've contacted have a take-it or leave-it attitude, so I ignored them and went to a small dealer who actually wanted to sell the car being advertised!

So far, I haven't been disillusioned in my expectation of a comfortable and economical 7-seat motorway express. It'll mostly get used as a 2-seater with a load of 'stuff' in the boot, but the ability to carry 3 or 4 adults and 3 growing grand-children rather than having to take two cars was what sold it to us.

I find it interesting that PSA managed to not only reduce the emissions slightly, but also squeeze another couple of hp out of the engine by going for a simpler design (8V SOHC in place of 16V DOHC) but the same car is fractionally slower to 60mph. The torque and power curves are a slightly strange shape too. All in all, it looks like designing the injection map to get the best compromise under a simplistic testing regime.

I intend to do my own annual oil and filter changes, sticking strictly to the 'special procedure'. Too often, sump design makes fully draining the engine almost impossible. When you take the sump off, there's still 100ml of oil in it that was never going to drain out unless the car was picked up and shaken vigorously!

Best of luck with your search.

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Non starting Pics

Post by Eddie Nuff » 01 Jan 2017, 04:22

Madam would never contemplate spending that much on a car, it just goes against the grain. And she has a point! I prefer to look around the salvage market, that's where all my daily cars bar one have come from.

10 plate 16v needing complete front end looked good but both airbags had gone off. I'm not fitting a dash so that one's out. The replacement engine job I think I'll leave and find a newer Focus/C-Max for it. 12 plate 8v needs offside panels but is auto. 10 plate 16v needs a bit more investigation as, not only does it need front panels after a light smack, and the turbo is on its last legs, but it has "NO INFO" on the dash. And that's where Lexia comes in!

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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by RichardW » 01 Jan 2017, 11:35

That procedure is much bandied about, but I doubt it is PSA. A minute to get oil pressure? Never seen the low oil pressure light on either of mine after an oil change. It's mostly common sense for diy anyway. Having had the sump off our C4 3 times, I can confirm that there is very little oil left in the bottom after a conventional drain, and, even though the pick up was blocked on all occasions, there was no sludge or crud in the bottom of the sump to speak of. Keep on top of the injector seals, remove the turbo oil feed strainer, keep to the oil change intervals, remove the sump and remove the oil pickup strainer if it starts to show signs of blocking (knocking at cold start / idle) and it should give 150k service. Both ours are over 100k now.

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Re: Non starting Pics

Post by Old-Guy » 01 Jan 2017, 22:54

RichardW wrote:That procedure is much bandied about, but I doubt it is PSA. A minute to get oil pressure? Never seen the low oil pressure light on either of mine after an oil change....
Perhaps that's because you fill the new filter with clean oil before fitting (unless it's one of those stupid upside-down arrangements)?

Thanks for the sound advice Richard.