Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

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falling-out-with-my-car
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

There are not that many things to stop a diesel from starting the stop solalanoid on the pump sounds like a good candidate for testing on this one if fuel is not getting through then no matter how much cranking you do it won't start. Sounds like that trapped lead could still be damaged proberbly the tdc sensor lead. Has he got a lexia to fault find with?
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by ekjdm14 »

HDi won't have a stop solenoid, the cut-off is done through the injectors not opening. To be honest I'd be sketchy on my faith in the mechanic if he "thinks" the immobiliser is stuck on... Lexia would tell him if that was the case or not... I can't recall if the car is being hooked up and basics like fuel pressure/cam-crank sync etc being checked but if not then it should be... Throwing ECUs at it isn't going to make a wiring or mechanical fault go away, and if a second ECU is indeed dead it would point me to wiring trouble still & I'd be inclined to double/triple check all potential areas for shorts before maybe frying another brain [-X

EDIT- re-read the post and can't find any reference to it being on a Lexia, it NEEDS to be diagnosed through this as a starting point rather than your man's throw-expensive-parts-at-it routine that's cost you 2k so far... it could be as simple as an air lock in the fuel causing low rail pressure... To be honest, if he's not had it on a Lexia then I would want to take it to somewhere else that understands modern common-rail stuff :?
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falling-out-with-my-car
Posts: 1928
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 15:26
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My Cars: Citroen C5 Aircross 8 speed Automatic, Flair Model with far to many toys and nice comfy armchair like leather seats. ha ha Ive just had a conversation with the car. setting everything up verbally
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

blimey I have a lot to learn hdi's now I own one.
Thanks ekjdm14
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
ekjdm14
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 1810
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
Location: Congleton
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by ekjdm14 »

Same here, still an awful lot for me to learn but this forum has been a great source of info as usual. It's this that makes me wonder about rail pressure, since I read a similar thread on a non-starting HDi where I learned that the injectors won't even begin opening until the ECU "sees" a certain fuel pressure (somewhere over 150 BAR, these things really are HIGH pressure!!!) and if the pressure is below this no amount of cranking over will purge the air out like with mechanical injection. Actually, if memory serves that was also a 1.4HDi and also had a problem where a wire got damaged. I'll try and find it and add a link in case it's of any help to welshie... Certainly won't get far without Lexia sessions though.

EDIT- here's the link to that thread, it was indeed a 1.4HDi and it was fixed quite cheaply in the end. Click me! I would reiterate though that Lexia is a must, theres very little chance to sort these without it & unlikely the car in that thread would be running without having been hooked up...
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by Welshie »

Just been and spoke to the mechanic. He is using lexia. He has 3 versions of it and none of them are communicating with the bsi. When he plugs it in it only shows abs and ecu. No option for clocks/radio/key coding or anything else and the immobiliser has tripped and he can't access the bsi to program it properly. He believe's 2 wires are broke. He is going to try bypass them to see if it's the wiring or bsi that's not working. He has done another bsi reset incase this was the problem but no change.
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Welshie wrote:Hello. Just spoke to the garage and my van is dead! He can't get it to fire up. It turns over but won't start. He has had it back for 3 weeks and can't find what's wrong. He has checked everything that has been said and done a bsi reset 3 times. He's now going to gt a 3rd ecu and try this instead as he thinks the immobiliser has come on and won't go off....looks like it going down the scrappy!!
I note in your earlier post above you said the mech. was going to get a third party ECU. What specific ECU is he talking about? If it's an engine ECU or BSI he can't just replace them - they will need to be a matched set compatible with this car, along with the keys. In your original post, you mentioned that the ECU was fried and he had repaired / failed and then replaced it. It would really help further if we knew what ECUs have been replaced as there can be over 20 ECUs in these cars!

If the engine ECU and or BSI has been replaced and you have a matching transponder chip key set, are these the correct versions for this car? There were various levels of BSI depending on trim levels. At one stage there were 3 levels of BSI, but on newer cars about 2009 on they upgraded and replaced the BSIs with newer types which are NOT backward compatible. I.E. If you had a newer type of BSI as originally fitted at factory, and have replaced it with a second hand unit of the old type - it will downgrade the vehicle and cause problems (even though the connector plugs are identical).

This issue of engine turning over without starting can also be associated with an engine-locked vehicle.
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by Stickyfinger »

Standard garage ~ modern matched electrics + MONEY spent = Rare success

so it seems
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Welshie - can you post up or PM your VIN please.
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Another possible issue you will have - I see this is in relation to a Citroen NEMO - in order to properly diagnose these cars, your mechanic will need an S1279 Add-on module for the Lexia. These cars come under the 'commercial' designation and need the add on unit to work properly with the Lexia:

This is the add-on module for some of the vehicles that were jointly developed with FIAT and some of the commercial vans such as the Peugeot Bipper, Peugeot Boxer III, Peugeot Boxer III minibus, Citroen Nemo, Citroen Jumper III, Citroen Jumper III minibus etc. and is called the S.1279
1279 Add-On Module for Lexia 3 (Bipper, Jumper, Nemo etc.)
1279 Add-On Module for Lexia 3 (Bipper, Jumper, Nemo etc.)
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by Welshie »

He did replace the ecu with the same one. Matching serial numbers. He got a new engine ecu clocks and key. He got the whole set of a doner van 09 plate mine is a 59 plate. He did say it's near impossible to find a 2nd one tho. He had it running and I had it back for a few days but with no power. Went back to the garage over Christmas. Mech broke up for Christmas 3 days later. Came back off holiday and now it won't start. He thinks this is because the immobiliser has tripped. The mech is no longer charging me because he is determined to fix it. He almost bought me a new van to use whilst he stripped my van apart and re-wired it....that would of been a bonus!! He is giving it his best. Can't post vin number as I'm 27 miles away from the garage working. Soon as I get the chance I will pop over and get it. It might be a different engine number though as it had an engine replacement 2 years ago done by a citroen main dealer. And I will check soon as possible if he has this attachment for the lexia. I'm sure he does as he said he needed to buy some new equipment to try diagnose the connection issued it's having
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by Stickyfinger »

the Vin is on your V5 and you MoT cert fyi
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Welshie - I've sent you an email with some technical docs on the Engine ECU and BSI for the NEMO in case they are any help to you or your mech. Some contain programming info and initialisation procedures that may or may not help. This is going to be a tricky one given that it has already had some ECUs transplanted - in nailing the problem down specifically. Assuming he also replaced the BSI (which he would have to have done when replacing the engine ECU), did he record down all the settings from the original BSI before taking it out? This is the general procedure to ensure that all the correct components and options are able to be manually reprogrammed in on the new one - as I assume he does not have access to main dealer server ECU downloads.

Although the BSIs may have the same identification - it doesn't mean they are configured for the same engines, components and trim options - hence the need to record or screen shot previous settings in lieu of an ECU download. Plus of course there is the software versions applied to the BSI - these too could be different from the donor car and your vehicle.
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

blimey Marc you certainly know your stuff.........
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by Stickyfinger »

I think Marc's avatar is quite accurate :)
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Re: Cant find the problem need help! £2k down already

Post by white exec »

Stickyfinger wrote:I think Marc's avatar is quite accurate :)
The avatar does look uncannily like Alan Johnson, ex-Home Secretary :|
Chris
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