C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

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Old-Guy
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Old-Guy »

Engine type designations in this post

The O/S top engine mount casting for the later, better, 8V 1.6HDi clearly has DV6C cast into its top face.
Last edited by Old-Guy on 02 Jan 2017, 11:32, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Old-Guy »

We bit the bullet after looking at 2 examples within a reasonable distance. Finally looked at one in Plymouth, not too far out of our way when picking up the grandchildren a week before Christmas. Right age, spec, condition, miles and PRICE! Put down a deposit after a proper test drive and collected her a few days later when taking the grandchildren back home. They are the reason for choosing a Grand C4 Picasso - with three child-seats in the back of the Xantia, doing up the seat-belts is a real fight every time they are with us. The GC4P's three separate adult seats in row 2 really scores here - that the squabs are a bit skinny doesn't matter as even when the kids are too big for child-seats, they'll be on booster cushions for a few years. The 'Grand' gives us a bigger boot (for folding bikes) or the ability to take all seven of us (3 generations) out for the day in 1 car instead of 2!

This means that the Green Lady needs a new home.

If anyone else considering buying a C4 Picasso (Grand or not) has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. Do beware that not only is it impossible to obtain an authoritative 'standard' spec for any variant, and advert details are NOT to be trusted, the handbook includes every option/variant without the slightest indication of what was fitted as standard to which variant, what was a factory order option, and you have to 'cherry-pick' information from pages which don't appear to relate to your car! I'm currently editting the downloadable pdfs to create something that is actually relevant to a 2011 VTR+ spec! I've still to fathom out which (if any) of the alternative means of adjusting the display brightness ours has! Currently it dims when you turn off the external lights! I drove the last half of my collection trip as though I was on stage with the instrument display as footlights!
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1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Old-Guy wrote:
If anyone else considering buying a C4 Picasso (Grand or not) has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. Do beware that not only is it impossible to obtain an authoritative 'standard' spec for any variant, and advert details are NOT to be trusted, the handbook includes every option/variant without the slightest indication of what was fitted as standard to which variant, what was a factory order option, and you have to 'cherry-pick' information from pages which don't appear to relate to your car! I'm currently editting the downloadable pdfs to create something that is actually relevant to a 2011 VTR+ spec! I've still to fathom out which (if any) of the alternative means of adjusting the display brightness ours has! Currently it dims when you turn off the external lights! I drove the last half of my collection trip as though I was on stage with the instrument display as footlights!
IIRC holding the rheostat button in slowly dims the longer you hold it and then let go and repeat again to raise brightness - same system of the X7. I've assumed you have access to your specific vehicle specs - shout if you don't and want a PDF of it. :wink:
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Old-Guy »

Paul-R wrote:A winch? How does that work?
It's now quite a common arrangement on vans and on cars that do have a spare mounted underneath. Instead of a carrier with a threaded shaft to raise/lower it, the spare is suspended on a steel cable through its centre. The cable is wound up through a guide onto a geared drum; gearing, drum and guide are usually all in one assembly bolted to the underneath of the vehicle. Transits and Connects have a long wheel brace arm that goes horizontally through a hole in the rear door cill to engage with a worm gear. When fitted, Picassos have a similar arrangement but with a vertical drive through the rear floor. Our GC4P has the hole (but no winch or spare), but I can't get her on to a lift to have a good look, and take some photos and measurements, until later in the week. Then all I need to do is find a wreck as donor for winch (+ fixings) and a spare wheel. I'd much prefer a full-size spare, but the handbook cautions that carrying a full size wheel while a space-saver is fitted reduces the rear ground clearance.

I've had 4 attempts to add an image, but photobucket is on the blink - literally - eventually successfully uploaded the image, but can't extract a link and finally I've lost patience with it. :x

Image
Last edited by Old-Guy on 02 Jan 2017, 16:47, edited 5 times in total.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Old-Guy »

GiveMeABreak wrote: IIRC holding the rheostat button in slowly dims the longer you hold it and then let go and repeat again to raise brightness - same system of the X7. I've assumed you have access to your specific vehicle specs - shout if you don't and want a PDF of it. :wink:
My original problem was trying to dim the display on a poorly-lit part of the filling station after filling the tank with cheap (Shell) diesel at Trago Mills on the way home. Blinded by the fully-bright display, in the dark I couldn't see the buttons beside it! To make matters worse, I didn't know which of the alternative locations described in the manual actually applied!

So, before I forgot again, I've just been out to the Picasso in full daylight to find the (un-illuminated) button and swap the display brightness settings - fully-bright day-time, dimmed down when the lights are on. Works exactly as you describe.

Thanks for the kind offer, but your assumption was correct - I had downloaded the full factory spec before I even collected the car - took a photo of the VIN at the bottom of the windscreen and checked it before paying for the car.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Great - no more Blackpool illuminations then!
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Richard_C »

Happy New Car.

The older Xsara Picassos suffered a spate of spare wheel thefts, it made for a very long thread on the Picasso forum. The carrier was flimsy, you could bend it enough to get it off its hook using the simplest of tools - bare hands. If it was tight you just let a bit of air out of the tyre. Owners (like me it the time) took to adding a cycle lock through a convenient hole in the subframe. I guess the newer winch arrangement solves that problem but worth thinking about when you do get a spare.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Paul-R »

Old-Guy wrote:Blinded by the fully-bright display, in the dark ...
Sounds a bit like the problem I had driving down in my wife's 308. The brightness of the multi-display in the centre was actually hurting my eyes at night. I eventually found that I could lower the brightness of the display itself from the menu but the ring of buttons surrounding the screen were still eyeball searingly bright.

I eventually discovered that they were tied in with the instrument display which is, of course, altered by a button on the speedo (or is it the tacho?). Who knew?

Anyway, with things turned down, driving at night became less of a chore. A good job as I was burdened enough with a cold and lack of sleep.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Old-Guy »

Richard: I think the relative ease with which spare wheels could be stolen from carriers may well have been at least part of the reason as I can't image a 'winch' arrangement saves on cost. I know a lot of fleet van operators made drivers keep the spare wheels inside the van, or in some cases, racked all spare wheels in the depot. Cheaper to send a second driver out with a spare wheel in the event of a puncture, than the probability of being charged for a new wheel and tyre at the end of the lease!

Paul: On my Picasso, the display brightness is absent from the menu and is controlled by a button under the warning lights - that doesn't control the brightness of the latter (so the electric parking brake warning lights are very bright at night!

Talking of the electric parking brake, it's like the EGS box - ideal for disabled drivers, but slow to act. Usually works well in 'hidden mode' (no indication) for hill-starts, but don't set it manually at traffic lights: by the time it's disengaged itself, the lights are likely to have gone red again!
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by renagade »

Well Guy,s I have the 2011 c5 1.6 e-hdi egs6 and find one the gearbox when set up right is as quick as any other paddle shifter but it MUST be set up right, two the 2011 1.6 hdi engine is nothing like the 2009 engine I had, as now the problem with the turbo has gone and also the engine has lost 8 valves it is now just an 8 valve head instead of the 16 valve. My car tax has gone from 178quid for my 2009 c5 to 30 quid for my 1.6 hdi 2011 model C5.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by renagade »

Hi Guy's
A bit late jumping in on this one but I would go for the exclusive with the egs6 gearbox, nice to drive once you have mastered the art of driving an egs6 equipped car.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Old-Guy »

Each to their own. As far as I'm concerned, the EGS6 is an unnecessary complication that I don't need and is expensive to fix, ditto the rear air suspension; both standard on Exclusives.

For the benefit of anyone else considering a used Grand C4 Picasso, the 1.6HDi VTR+ (Oct 2010 -on) is by far the most popular variant, so greatest choice of vehicles, and a fair proportion had the EGS6 transmission (the C4 Picassos being very popular under the Motability scheme).
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If buying one myself, I too would not want the EGS system - I've driven quite a few C4 Picassos with this and do not like it - but apart from that as Guy says, the additional costs and complexities for the actuators and associated mechanics / hydraulics would put me right off. It's bad enough and costly enough with a manual clutch and DMF! The rear Air Bags are also fraught with problems due to the exhaust heat wearing / cracking the bags after a while and I know some who have had them converted back to springs.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by demag »

I like these but find the specs totally mind boggling. I see there was slush box automatic built for a while but have read conflicting reports about that as well. Some saying it was only available with the 2.0 petrol others with the 2.0 diesel and then only for a short while.

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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Old-Guy »

Reading through this thread afetr some 6 months of ownership, I can add a few more useful comments:
1. Even if you note the VIN (at the base of the screen) of a prospective buy, DO NOT rely on the spec from service.citroen.com - that for our GC4P is wrong (and disagrees with the parts list) in several respects e.g. 6.5 inch wheel rim (parts list and car = 16 x 7J); the Handbook doesn't mention the 6-speed gearbox which replaced the 5-speed gearbox for (almost) all C4 Picassos from 1/11/2010.
2. The replacement of the infamous 16V HDi DOHC (DV6TED4) Euro4 engine with a succession of cleaner, meaner, 8v SOHC engines (DV6C for Euro5, DV6FC for Euro6.1) seems to have largely been ignored by the motor trade, ditto Citroen's 2011 facelifts across the whole range, so be careful when order buying parts - lots of parts remain the same but also more changes than you might think. If a particular parts database/catalogue just shows "2007-2013" or worse "2006-onwards" be very wary no only because there was the '2011' facelift but from 2014-onwards the C4 Picasso (and other models) were based on a completely new floor-pan with yet another exterior facelift and revised engines; repeated again in November 2016 for '2017' models.
3. The power output of the DV6C is variously quoted as unchanged from 16v at 110hp, 112hp or 115hp - definitively the 1.6HDi is 112hp and the eco-Blu version is 109hp (PSA's specs as engine manufacturer). The confusion seems to come from converting a rounded kW figure into hp and rounding that again. Interestingly, when I came to get insurance quotes, the MID (Motor Insurers Database) lists 90, 109, 110 and 112hp for 1.6HDi engines and gets it right for our Reg No.
Last edited by RichardW on 26 Jun 2017, 12:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected engine designation in point 2
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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