C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

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C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

Post by Old-Guy »

The C4 Grand Picasso seems to have a reputation for a comfortable ride but I find the range of model variants bewildering when it comes to working out what a particular car has (notably high profile tyres). Does anyone have any experience/thoughts on the pre-2014 models? Is the 'automatic' electric parking brake standard across the range?

The background is that the 'Green Lady' is gradually becoming more incontinent, anti-socially dribbling engine oil from the C/S pulley seal. Serious Xantia DIY is beyond me now, so I'm reluctantly starting to look around for a replacement. With 3 sibling grandchildren, 7 seats would be best - Granny, Granddad, Mummy and her 3 little darlings out for the day currently means taking 2 cars. The Xantia may be sedate, but eats the miles in real comfort even over the appalling roads south and west of the home counties - but the low seating can make getting out/in a bit of a struggle in tight parking spaces.
Last edited by Old-Guy on 02 Jan 2017, 10:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Have a look here at Julian Marsh's page - everything you will likely need to know - inc. specs - this link is for the C4 Grand Picasso 2006-2013 models and is quite comprehensive. One thing to watch is the ones with Pneumatic rear suspension units fitted as an option on some trim levels - they have been known to cause problems - the heat from the exhaust system dries out the pneumatic bags and can cause premature wear. They are generally well-specified cars though.

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/passenger-c ... casso.html
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Lighty »

Personally I would avoid the semi auto, we are fitting clutches weekly now & the cost is near on £1000 quid, the clutch will last about 60 to 80 k miles, so build this into the equation if buying. Fitted two electronic gear assemblies lately, again another £1000 just for the parts.
All other stuff is easily fixable, rear airbags can be swapped for springs at about £250. Boot lid handles & release catches are very Nasty quality and break regularly. Hand brakes are all electric, but don't give problems tbh, it just stops working if something fails on the engine i.e. Egr valve on the 1.6 diesel.
The 2.0 diesel or petrols are the best, and once sorted are actually quite a good car.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by RichardW »

^^ what he said!!

Despite the well publicised 1.6 HDi related problems we are very happy with ours; just about to turn over 100k, and nothing else has gone wrong really - as Lighty says, the boot catch is broken, but we just live with it - push the handle forwards and unclip, then lift the boot from elsewhere across the rail!

Most are either VTR+ spec which come on 16" wheels or Exclusive which come on 17". There are options to add on, but exclusive goes to climate control whereas VTR+ makes do with manual adjustment, albeit that there are separate driver and passenger controls; think the exclusive also has blowers in the rear. Exclusive in Grand format adds the troublesome pneumatic suspension at the rear. Ride is not up to Xantia stds, but it's not bad, a bit roly poly,but then it's not meant to be a sports car!

Avoid the 16V 1.6 HDi before 2011 (unless it has full history at reputable garage, there is no sign of injector blowby, and the turbo doesn't look new; and even then you need to get it in and have the filter in the turbo feed pipe removed!). The 8V engine after this (they went from a plastic engine cover embossed with HDI 16 to a cloth one) is better. There was also a facelift about this time that added day running lights and a few other bits and pieces. They seem to hold their value pretty well - a 100k 9 year old like ours is still over £3k.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Old-Guy »

Thanks chaps - exactly the sort of thing I wanted to know. Having had a browse through what's on AutoTrader, most for sale are 1.6 VTR(+).

I'm generally a KISS man, but A/C or C/C appeals; auto boxes don't appeal (though the Hillman Hunter Estate with BW35 autobox that we had in the 70s became a brilliant commuter, even in snow and ice, once I changed the ATF and cleaned the filter - its thirst was the only problem!), nor does the Renault self-levelling suspension.

I'll read through Julian Marsh's words of wisdom before I start asking idiot questions.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by RichardW »

They've all got AC - required as it's like a mobile greenhouse! It's just that lesser models have manual temperature adjustment rather than automatic climate.

There are a few petrol ones about, and they are substantially cheaper then the diesel ones, but presumably substantially more thirsty, and more to tax. Depends on how much you are going to use it.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Old-Guy »

Semi-auto box = flappy paddles?
RichardW wrote:...There are a few petrol ones about, and they are substantially cheaper then the diesel ones...
Been looking at 2010 - 2013 - if anything, 1.6Vti 16Vs are a tad more expensive than 1.6HDi albeit usually rather fewer miles.
RichardW wrote:Avoid the 16V 1.6 HDi before 2011 ... The 8V engine after this (they went from a plastic engine cover embossed with HDI 16 to a cloth one) is better.
How does one immediately tell a 2011 reg that has the earlier engine (I once salvaged parts from a Xantia built in late '95 but not registered for some 9 months!)?
Is the popular 16V 1.6HDi post 2010 troublesome?
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by RichardW »

Old-Guy wrote:Semi-auto box = flappy paddles?
Correct
Old-Guy wrote:How does one immediately tell a 2011 reg that has the earlier engine (I once salvaged parts from a Xantia built in late '95 but not registered for some 9 months!)?
16V engine:

Image

Note plastic cover and tubular turbo outlet

8V engine:

Image

Felt cover and square ribbed turbo outlet.

The 8V engine has a lower CO2 rating, takes the tax down from £175 or so to £130.

Old-Guy wrote:Is the popular 16V 1.6HDi post 2010 troublesome?
Like I say, they went back to an 8V unit in 2011 which is much less problem than the earlier engine. Having said that, my parent's one needed a new injector at 45k!!
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Old-Guy »

Richard,
Thanks very much - all crystal clear now! A picture's worth a thousand words.
Just been having another look at what's on Autoraider: quite a number of 2011 1.6HDi 16V VTR+s advertised - most without engine pix, one that does shows an 8V!

UPDATE: Having talked to the private seller of one of the above, an explanation emerges. The car was ordered as a Grand Picasso 1.6HDi 16V VTR+ in May 2010. The car was eventually registered/delivered (in February 2011!) with paperwork stating 1.6HDi 16V, but with emissions and tax class at the lower figures of an 8V! A photo taken today is definitely of the same external engine configuration as Richards second photo above. So it appears that Citroen held up orders for RHD Grand Picassos for some months in 2010, before releasing them for build to 2011 spec with 8V engines. Unfortunately, I don't have a VIN for any of these cars to see what service.citroen shows.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Richard_C »

Notes to OP, a former Hillman Hunter owner, mine was a Mk1 1750, did 168k miles before expiring in a cloud of blue smoke - took head off (the car, not mine) to find a wholly holy piston and a collection of very worn piston ring remains. Decided to rebuild but the months passed and the body rotted, had no garage then just a driveway. A guy from work towed it away because he wanted some bits and I still have the 10/- note, that's ten shillings for those not around pre 1971, I took in exchange.

Back to topic.

5 years ago I looked at a GP as a replacement for a Saab 9-5 estate. Ticked most of the boxes but I stumbled on a very good C5 Estate which I bought. Serendipity. On the same used car lot as a GP I was looking at.

In my looking I found a few things that might be useful:

Nice to drive, not quite the limo that the Xantia is (had one of those once) but fine.
Rear seats (middle row) plenty of legroom but a bit hard and unwelcoming in comparison to Saab or Xantia. If you have regular back seat passengers (e.g. teenage sized children) get them to give a verdict.
The ones with the self levelling rear suspension don't, if I recall, have room for a spare wheel
The ETG auto I drove scared me. Good enough on the move but let me compare the SAAB auto and the GP auto:

Arrive at roundabout, trickle along at 5mph as you do in an auto, see gap in traffic, press down accelerator.

SAAB ECU: he wants to go fast, what fun, I will immediately drop into the lowest available gear, empty content of fuel tank into injectors, hey, we're off .....

CITROEN ETG: hmmm, maybe he wants to go a bit faster, lets pour a coffee and think about it, well, looks like he's sure about this so when I've finished my drink I will change down a gear, OK, that's done, now I wonder if he is serious about it, lets just try a bit of gentle acceleration, OK, hey he's changed his mind, wonder why? Oh, the gap in the traffic has gone. Oh well, always next time .......

Ok, I exaggerate and I'm sure I would have got used to it, but it seemed very sluggish/uncertain off the line. I think the later ones had better software, I drove a more recent C3 ETG and it was much more responsive.

Seems like a lot of GPs and UGPs (un-grand Picassos) went out on Motability contracts, nothing wrong with that because the lease includes maintenance so services should be done. Maybe its all a bit on a shoestring and you do see some with cheap tyres on. I did see one or two that looked ratty inside, scratched plastics, not well looked after, but also saw a couple of excellent ones.

Lots of Motability leases are being cancelled after medical reviews: seems a very tough way to deal with people many of whom have had help for years, but it does mean lots of ex motability cars coming onto the market early - you might be able to find a bargain.

So looked at GP but choosing C5 then, 5 years on I've just changed C5 for a C4 un-grand Picasso new shape, we have occasional need for a big load capacity but not 7 seats.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Old-Guy »

Sorry chaps - yet another question.
A tidy Grand Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi on a 60 or 11 plate (8V) seems the best bet (its a typical model-change situation with the published specs being unreliable - to put it politely).
I've noticed at least one advertised with "puncture repair kit" (a solidified or empty can of 'sealer' and a feeble 12V 'compressor'), another with a 'space-saver' tyre, and yet another with a full-size spare. It occurs to me that a 5th wheel from a scrapper shouldn't be too hard to find.
Can anyone tell me for definite please if all VTR+s have space for a full size spare?
Is the spare in an external carrier like a Xantia?

Richard, a couple or 3 years ago, I drove about 50 miles in someone else's pride and joy - a C3 VTR EGS :? The only other flappy-paddle I've driven (so to speak) was a 911 Carrera. Guess which one was best - by light-years! The EGS was as slow and jerky (exactly as you describe), even in 'manual'. As we would expect, the 911 'change was instant and smooth as silk; sadly on a summer Friday afternoon I got it into 6th for all of 2 miles of clear road before having tread hard on the middle pedal for a rapidly approaching 50 limit. Sunday morning at first light would have been so much more fun! :-D
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Paulmi16 »

The 'compressor' on the C4 at work is anything but feeble, it pumps up van tyres from flat with ease, so much that when it goes back at the end of contract it will be missed. The car wont.
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Old-Guy wrote:Sorry chaps - yet another question.
Can anyone tell me for definite please if all VTR+s have space for a full size spare?
Is the spare in an external carrier like a Xantia?
Can't say for sure some VTR+ models have a winch system for the spare:
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Old-Guy »

I think I'll have to go do some tyre kicking!
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Re: C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement?

Post by Paul-R »

A winch? How does that work?
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