I fear the head gasket has gone on my Xantia 1.9TD M reg due to pressure in water system blowing out coolant. However I have carried out the check on header tank to see if bubbles are present shortly after starting engine. There are no bubbles at idle, however, when I rev engine, water level in header drops! then when I stop revving the engine the level rises and I get lots of bubbles, with header tank overflowing. I would have thought that the bubbles would be present whilst revving engine and would subside when returning to idle.
Is this the head gasket? Can anyone explain why the water level drops on revving the engine?
Thanks
Strange happenings in header tank?
Moderator: RichardW
Does it overheat? If it will drive maybe you can take it to your local 'good' garage, they should have a headgasket tester, which is a liquid that is exposed to the coolent gases. If its a head gasket the liquid will change colour. Usualy it goes from a blue colour to a greenish/yellow colour.
Good luck!
Good luck!
-
David Goddard
- Posts: 138
- Joined: 26 Sep 2001, 04:39
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
Sounds very more like an air lock. It can explain both symptoms. Open the bleed vents in turn until water comes out. Start with the lowest. I don't knwo where they are on the TD. But usually near the thermomstat, on the radiator and on one of the two rubber hoses going through the bulkhead to the heater.
I have tried bleeding it on numerous occassions, but never certain if totally successful. If it is an airlock I guess I can be pretty certain I haven't been!
The bleed valves I have found are close to the LHS top engine mount (viewed from front of car) and at the point where heater hoses go through engine bay to car.
I have also tried filling header whilst front drivers side wheel is up on a kerb or car is jacked up on drivers side. Both attempts to raise header tank in relation to the hoses to clear air locks that might be present. Also on one occassion I used a piece of UPVC pipe that fitted snuggly into header tank mouth, and filled the tube with water, which gave me about an extra 12" of head. Whilst this did seem to do the trick for a while it wasn't permanent as I still seemed to lose water and had to top it up. I am fairly certain the water is being lost through the overflow pipe on the header tank. When you park the car you can hear it hissing - so I changed the header tank cap in the hope that it would help again to no avail.
The bleed valves I have found are close to the LHS top engine mount (viewed from front of car) and at the point where heater hoses go through engine bay to car.
I have also tried filling header whilst front drivers side wheel is up on a kerb or car is jacked up on drivers side. Both attempts to raise header tank in relation to the hoses to clear air locks that might be present. Also on one occassion I used a piece of UPVC pipe that fitted snuggly into header tank mouth, and filled the tube with water, which gave me about an extra 12" of head. Whilst this did seem to do the trick for a while it wasn't permanent as I still seemed to lose water and had to top it up. I am fairly certain the water is being lost through the overflow pipe on the header tank. When you park the car you can hear it hissing - so I changed the header tank cap in the hope that it would help again to no avail.
Hi guys
I am afraid I am still having the same problems with the header tank. Symptoms exactly the same.
Car is due for MOT and I am wondering whether to scrap it as it will need some other work (Anti lock brake sensor not working on one of the wheels and think I need to replace rear suspension arms), however the car was well maintained and has only done about 75K. I do not think problem is Head gasket as it does not seem to have lost power, nor do the bubbles show as stated in my original posting. My suspicions now centre on the Header tank itselfbeing worn and so not allowing a good seal between it and the cap. I have noticed that while the hissing is coming from the cap at the end of a run, a gentle nudge on the cap sometimes stops it.
So I purchased a 2nd hand header off eBay to try that. However the replacement header tank has 2 outlets on the underside stacked one above the other on an extra chamber that is affixed to the underside of the header tank. The header tank rattles from this extra chamber so it appears to be some type of valve or float device.
The one pipe fitting to the underside of my header tank has one pipe that goes to a 'T' junction on top of the engine mount, the other 2 parts of the 'T' have pipes that go to opposite ends of the head. I am wondering whether on the modification there is no 'T', the pipes going from the head, directly to the 2 connections on the underside of the header tank.
My questions are
What is the purpose of this extra chamber / float / valve?
Can I retro fit this header tank to my Xantia which does not have this part, and if so can you advise what hoses plug into it. Or alternatively can I simply fit the one hose that I have to the upper or lower connection and blank off the other connection?
Any help or advice will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Eddie
I am afraid I am still having the same problems with the header tank. Symptoms exactly the same.
Car is due for MOT and I am wondering whether to scrap it as it will need some other work (Anti lock brake sensor not working on one of the wheels and think I need to replace rear suspension arms), however the car was well maintained and has only done about 75K. I do not think problem is Head gasket as it does not seem to have lost power, nor do the bubbles show as stated in my original posting. My suspicions now centre on the Header tank itselfbeing worn and so not allowing a good seal between it and the cap. I have noticed that while the hissing is coming from the cap at the end of a run, a gentle nudge on the cap sometimes stops it.
So I purchased a 2nd hand header off eBay to try that. However the replacement header tank has 2 outlets on the underside stacked one above the other on an extra chamber that is affixed to the underside of the header tank. The header tank rattles from this extra chamber so it appears to be some type of valve or float device.
The one pipe fitting to the underside of my header tank has one pipe that goes to a 'T' junction on top of the engine mount, the other 2 parts of the 'T' have pipes that go to opposite ends of the head. I am wondering whether on the modification there is no 'T', the pipes going from the head, directly to the 2 connections on the underside of the header tank.
My questions are
What is the purpose of this extra chamber / float / valve?
Can I retro fit this header tank to my Xantia which does not have this part, and if so can you advise what hoses plug into it. Or alternatively can I simply fit the one hose that I have to the upper or lower connection and blank off the other connection?
Any help or advice will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Eddie
Sorry to say that my 93 TD displayed similiar symptoms a few years ago. Having done all the usual bleeding etc it was the head gasket. Started by putting coolant out the overflow which meant that pressure was being built in the header tank causing the valve in the cap to open.
Less than a year later the radiator started leaking, seemed like it was all clogged up. So if doing the hg also do a good flushing of the rad.
Less than a year later the radiator started leaking, seemed like it was all clogged up. So if doing the hg also do a good flushing of the rad.
Hi Egrid1,
Firstly ,I can tell you that your problem is definitely the head gasket (99.9% sure!)or less likely a crack in cylinder head or block,
symptoms being very similar.[:(]
The rise and fall in your header tank is normal and is due mainly to the force of the water being pumped round the system ,increasing as you rev the engine ;and the bubbles will be more evident at low revs as the piston which is pressurising the cooling system (due to the faulty gasket)has more time,putting it simply,to push gases through that gap.
Now because there is ,apparently,no evidence of water in your oil,and no white smoke from exhaust ,indicating that water is going in the opposite direction - into the relative cylinder - then I would say that you were in the early stages of a leaking gasket.[:(]
[:)]The good news is that this is still curable,as the leak is likely to be miniscule - no more than a couple of hairs breadths.
The idea is just to "fill in" that gap and there are a couple of things to try,and they have a high success rate (from experience)and
are cheap and simple,
Try firstly " Barrs stop leaks" ,I think its called ,from Halfords which is designed to plug any small internal or external leak and it lubricates your water pump too.
- If that doesn`t work then there is a second treatment you can try
It`s made by Halfords and it`s called something like " Cylinder block( and head) crack sealant" and works in much the same way, only it involves removing the thermostat briefly.
Both treatments are compatible with antifreeze and simple to use.
I have "cured" two cars with these and they are still going strong
after several thousand miles - one a petrol the other a diesel.
So many times I`ve seen cylinder head gaskets replaced unnecessarily
and at a huge expense too when they can be caught in the early stages.
[:)][:D]Hope this info helps.
Firstly ,I can tell you that your problem is definitely the head gasket (99.9% sure!)or less likely a crack in cylinder head or block,
symptoms being very similar.[:(]
The rise and fall in your header tank is normal and is due mainly to the force of the water being pumped round the system ,increasing as you rev the engine ;and the bubbles will be more evident at low revs as the piston which is pressurising the cooling system (due to the faulty gasket)has more time,putting it simply,to push gases through that gap.
Now because there is ,apparently,no evidence of water in your oil,and no white smoke from exhaust ,indicating that water is going in the opposite direction - into the relative cylinder - then I would say that you were in the early stages of a leaking gasket.[:(]
[:)]The good news is that this is still curable,as the leak is likely to be miniscule - no more than a couple of hairs breadths.
The idea is just to "fill in" that gap and there are a couple of things to try,and they have a high success rate (from experience)and
are cheap and simple,
Try firstly " Barrs stop leaks" ,I think its called ,from Halfords which is designed to plug any small internal or external leak and it lubricates your water pump too.
- If that doesn`t work then there is a second treatment you can try
It`s made by Halfords and it`s called something like " Cylinder block( and head) crack sealant" and works in much the same way, only it involves removing the thermostat briefly.
Both treatments are compatible with antifreeze and simple to use.
I have "cured" two cars with these and they are still going strong
after several thousand miles - one a petrol the other a diesel.
So many times I`ve seen cylinder head gaskets replaced unnecessarily
and at a huge expense too when they can be caught in the early stages.
[:)][:D]Hope this info helps.
Hi egrid1,
I had a problem with my L reg 1993 Xantia 1.9TD SX, Water level was going down slightly and getting bubbles in the header tank, I thought it was either the gasket or a cracked head, but I wasn't getting any puddles of water under the car.I then thought the water was going into the exhaust the the gasket.
I then had another thought. The water level on your car drops when you rev, because the pump is drawing the 'excess' thats in the header tank into the system, just as it should.
I then tried pressure testing the system, You should have (looking from the front)a pipe that goes over the cambelt housing with a tyre valve cap on it. This is to bleed your system.
Now, warm your engine, once warm, stop the engine. Then, with great care, undo the expansion tank cap, Be Aware, Water or Steam may out. Once released, retighten.
Get a 12 volt tyre pump, undo the Tyre valve cap thats on the cooling system pipe, Attach the tyre pump to the 'valve' Now turn on the pumo and pressurise to about 15 psi NO HIGHER.
Have a look around to see if you now can see water leaking from the system. Water leaked from my radiatore at the bottom left hand corner. I couldn't see any before , because the water was only leaking when the engine was warm and the system pressurised.
You will now have to let the engine cool before undoing the expansion tank filler cap, once released water WILL spray out because of the pressure you have put in.
PAUL
I had a problem with my L reg 1993 Xantia 1.9TD SX, Water level was going down slightly and getting bubbles in the header tank, I thought it was either the gasket or a cracked head, but I wasn't getting any puddles of water under the car.I then thought the water was going into the exhaust the the gasket.
I then had another thought. The water level on your car drops when you rev, because the pump is drawing the 'excess' thats in the header tank into the system, just as it should.
I then tried pressure testing the system, You should have (looking from the front)a pipe that goes over the cambelt housing with a tyre valve cap on it. This is to bleed your system.
Now, warm your engine, once warm, stop the engine. Then, with great care, undo the expansion tank cap, Be Aware, Water or Steam may out. Once released, retighten.
Get a 12 volt tyre pump, undo the Tyre valve cap thats on the cooling system pipe, Attach the tyre pump to the 'valve' Now turn on the pumo and pressurise to about 15 psi NO HIGHER.
Have a look around to see if you now can see water leaking from the system. Water leaked from my radiatore at the bottom left hand corner. I couldn't see any before , because the water was only leaking when the engine was warm and the system pressurised.
You will now have to let the engine cool before undoing the expansion tank filler cap, once released water WILL spray out because of the pressure you have put in.
PAUL
I recently sorted a small headgasket leak on my Xantia 2.0i by backing off the head bolts one at a time, greased the thread and then torqued it up to 85 Nm. Start at the centre bolts and work out. This will only work if the engine has not had a severe overheating. In my opinion, a better solution than putting glue through the entire cooling system.
I think that before you start messing around with the head gasket and head,you should give my idea a try first. A local Ex Citroen mechanic now tries my idea out before starting to dismantle the engine. So far, 3 radiators have proved to be the problem, saving his customers a lot of money and his credability.
Paul
Paul