Hydractive strangeness

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aerodynamica
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Location: Glasgow
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

And this afternoon I called into AEP to ask about the speedo cables and they have no less than 28 in stock!

So I have a new cable upper section - the small lower cable is spinning happily so here's hoping the whole lot will come together nicely this weekend
Graeme M
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Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by CitroJim »

That's a result Graeme!

I wonder if they might fit an XM too...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

Not even sure they fit Xantia yet Jim hahaha

will find out tomorrow some time!
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by white exec »

Hopefully you can get the cable fixed, Graeme, then be done with these things once and for all! Talk about 'been there before'!

Good luck with the repair, and well done for finding the old stock.
Chris
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

Yes and I can take pictures, measurements of the speedo cable in case anyone needs one for an XM or other since AEP have so many in stock.

I called the Citroen dealer about the speed sensor and they want 90- odd quid for it . Then called GSF and they can get it for like £16 or something..
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

Fixed!
The speed sensor was there at GSF this morning at 10am and I picked up the speedo cable yesterday.

Out with the old speed sensor and here's the new:
Image
The bit of broken-off square drive in the pinion thing was stuck in so had to use progressivley larger drills in the dremel until I could use a little 'easy out' on it - worked a treat. The replacement speedo sensor went in fine and the small part of the cable too (after cleaning it and squeezing in some grease) But removing the old upper cable!.... that was a chore. If anyone's seen this on a Mk1 Xantia (i.e that still uses a drive cable) on a RHD car (coz I just KNOW the LHD will be simple and neat) it is a nightmare. The cable emerges from the bulkhead right above and behind the brake doseur valve and all its pipes. The thing is very hard to access and to make matters worse, the big rubber ' ball' that's part of the cable's bulkhead aperture seal was stuck solid in the hole. Barely touchable by any tool and certainly no leverage space with the back of the engine and turbo pipes all so close. I opted in the end to remove the turbo pipes and move the fuel feed and return pipes to help with access. EVENTUALLY I got it to move and after a lot of lost skin got it slowly emerging from the aperture hole. It took well over an hour, fitting the new cable took 5 min.

Knackered after that but I was rewarded with the immediate return of the hydractive functioning and now a nice steady speedometer needle! Simple(ish ) pleasures.

Found the source of the dead oil temo gauge and no STOP light and battery light - I'd simply not fitted one of the multi plugs fully home in my haste last week.

While I had the speedo/ gauges unit out I traced the hydractive warning lamp pin out to the terminal. It is connected to the red multi plug at pin 11. The strange thing is that there is a wire connected to this position at the plug....
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
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white exec
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Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by white exec »

So, bet you're pleased with all that!
And - the car no longer thinks it's standing still, which has obviously made something of a difference to suspension behaviour.
Great job, and quickly done. =D>
New Year's resolution: No More Speedo Cables.
Chris
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

hahahaha true Chris, and of course you know on the Xantia (poss XM too) the wiress transponder version of the speedometer is backwards compatible so technically I could replace the cable with a transmitter on the gearbox and change the speedometer to the 'sagem' type. But, far be it from me to be puritan about things (I've got Peugeot wheels on the car!) but I do prefer all aspects of the Mk1 interior including the instruments so I probably will never do that mod. And after today's epic energy expenditure I want to enjoy that smooth speedo needle reading with it's old skool cable drive! (there's 27 left in stock folks at AEP!)

Anyway now what I really need is a Mk1 Xantia factory wiring diagram..... that wire to/ from the Hydractive H4 ECU and the hydractive warning lamp must emerge somewhere.....
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
User avatar
CitroJim
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Posts: 49534
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x 6163
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Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by CitroJim »

Well done Graeme! I've done speedo cables in both Xantias and XMs and what a complete ^(^&&*^(% they can be! I take my hat off to you sir and great to know all is now good and the other faults are resolved too!

I've been known to chop off the rubber ball in the past to make the job easier!

I may have the diagram you need in a very tatty wiring diagram book that's about as delicate as the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's seen a LOT of use in the past!

Next time I have the scanner fired up I'll scan and offer some hopefuls up.

I looked closely at a later S2 instrument panel yesterday and there's no Hydractive light on those. What position is it in on the early S1 instruments?
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

Cheers Jim,
That would be great.

As for the hydractive lamp it's on the right side of lamps top row and furthest left. Directly above the diesel pre heater lamp. It's connected by the red multi plug in pin 11.

The reason I want to see how it would be wired is that the description of the lamp in the hydractive 2 training doc was that it was earthed via pin x at the ecu and supplied with 12v at the instruments. But looking at the circuit tracks that lamp shares it's earth with all the other lamps there as you'd expect. So how would that Work?
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

Ha, another thing Jim- the possible LHM leak is now confirmed :( it's oozing out now. I think it's the rubber return from the brake doseur where the Speedo cable got snagged. It's very hard to see. Itcould also be from a rubber return from the steering pinion valve but less likely. The leak started immediately after the speedometer job...
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7445
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by white exec »

Hi Graeme,

Had a quick look at both the B7 Training document, and at some XM suspension ECU wiring diagrams.
Although B7 does refer "control through earth of the test light" and to connection of this to pin 10 on the 15-way white ECU connector, the circuit diagrams I have show something else:
Warning light is permanently grounded, and connects to pin 14 on 15-way white susp ECU.
So ECU feeds + to the warning light.

I don't have the Xantia circuit diagrams, but the H4 served both XM and Xantia.
Careful, though:
The Citroen manual (Suspension section) gives details about H4, and states that there were two versions:
old (H4 S2H2G)
new (H4 S212G)
and that these are NOT interchangeable.
Just wondering whether there might have been an external wiring change, as well as function, between the two.

Should be possible, though to look at the output from pin 10 (or pin 14) of your White ECU connectors, and see whether the it behaves like a warning light signal (what you'd expect when turning IGN on) and whether it is +ve.
Chris
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Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by furriegurrie »

My hydractive phase 2 V6 Xantia had the ha control light in the sportsmode switch. A small orange LED which illuminates for a couple of seconds when you fire up the car. It's so small you easily miss it when it does not light up because of a stored fault in the suspension ecu....
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by aerodynamica »

Cheers Chris, pin 10 on the white connector is missing so it's possible that they simply eliminated the wiring at that part of the loom. I did find however that the corresponding connection up in the instruments does have a wire connected to it. I wanted to find out whee that wire goes as I'd imagine that would be leading towards the ecu connector up to a point (where the contaminating was discontinued)
furriegurrie wrote:My hydractive phase 2 V6 Xantia had the ha control light in the sportsmode switch. A small orange LED which illuminates for a couple of seconds when you fire up the car. It's so small you easily miss it when it does not light up because of a stored fault in the suspension ecu....
That's interesting, where is it located in the actual switch itself? That's found up on the dashboards on series 2 isn't it (series1 has it in the Centre console)
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
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Re: Hydractive strangeness

Post by furriegurrie »

On a LHD car it is located here:
Image

As it's small and obscured mostly by the steeringwheel it's easily missed...
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