1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Bick »

Bump - as they call it ill bump this one up and see if anyone has any more info over this weekend.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Andle »

Bob L'eponge wrote: 17 Oct 2016, 23:29 Below is the wording of what supposedly was a technical bulletin issued by Citroen regarding the correct procedure for changing the oil on the 1.6 Hdi unit. It specifically states that suction methods should not be used. (I can't verify that this was a genuine, Citroen-issued Technical Bulletin.)

OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE ON ALL DV6 ENGINES

It is necessary to follow a specific oil change procedure on all DV6 and DV6U engines so as to ensure that no used oil remains to mix with the new oil.

The following method must be used:

• The engine oil temperature must be at least 50°C :
- the engine oil temperature is considered to be at 50°C when the water temperature indicator is between 80°C and 90°C or the cooling fan has cut in
• ensure that the vehicle is level (side to side and fore and aft)
• remove the oil filter to allow the circuit to drain completely
• remove the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• remove the drain plug
• allow the oil to drain by gravity for at least 10 minutes (DO NOT USE SUCTION METHODS)
• fit a new oil filter
• refit the drain plug with a new sealing washer
• fill the engine with quantity of oil recommended for the engine
• refit the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• run the engine at idle until the oil pressure warning lamp goes out (about 1 minute)
• wait 5 minutes
• check the oil level using the dipstick: the level should be as close as possible to, but not exceeding the maximum mark (1) so as to be between (1) and (3)

For information, the lower mark (2) = Min (0%) the upper mark (1) = Max (100%) the intermediate mark (3) = ¾
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CONSEQUENCES OF NOT KEEPING TO THE OIL CHANGE INTERVALS

If the customer does not have the oil changed at the recommended intervals, the oil will become excessively polluted and will no longer ensure the correct lubrication of the engine. One of the first consequences is inadequate lubrication of the turbocharger bearings causing a failure which is repeated after the turbocharger is replaced. Subsequent symptoms resulting from the reduced level of lubrication will be a noisy engine and then destruction of the engine.

We remind you that if the customer does not keep to the servicing intervals recommended in the Maintenance and Guarantee Guide, the customer will be responsible for the durability of the mechanical parts of the engine.
In this case, the any related repairs needed are not covered by the new vehicle warranty.

CONSEQUENCES OF NOT FOLLOWING THE OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE

If the oil changes are not done as described above, all deposits of old oil will not be removed and will very quickly pollute the new oil, accelerating the ageing of the oil in the engine lubrication circuit (even causing the oil to congeal).

The consequences for the engine are the same as if the oil change intervals are not observed. As a result, any related repairs needed are not covered under the new vehicle warranty.


This fantastic post was made in 2013.

I have a Picasso Xsara with a 1.6 HDI engine.

I'm asking for an updated guide to be posted - because I suspect many many community members would use and be interested in it.

Any extra hints and tips that help with this task would be greatly appreciated too.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by elma »

You want a warm but not hot engine so the oil runs nicely but doesn't burn you.

When you remove the sump plug, make sure you get the old washer as sometimes they stick to the sump.
It helps to push up gently on the sump plug as you unscrew it as it'll remain sealed and not drip oil down your arm.
The washer is reusable if it is silver and black, if it is copper it can be reannealed with a blowtorch and reused or replaced.

Undo the filter with a generous portion of paper wadding underneath and have a plastic bag right there for it to drop into.
When replacing the oil filter smear some fresh oil over the rubber seal before attaching the filter to the car, it prevents the seal being crimped which causes leakages.

Other than that it's prity much as the guide says.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by MikeT »

I've used the suction-method on the last three changes in my 1.6HDI. Does anyone know why Citroen prohibit it?

I was concerned it couldn't remove enough oil so pulled the plug after as surety and was pleasantly surprised that not one drop appeared.
I can only guess it's not recommended by Citroen due to user-error as you can't be sure the tube has reached it's lowest point and not snagged somewhere?
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Paul-R »

I suspect that they warn against the suction method as the dipstick tube method probably doesn't allow the suction tube to be pushed to the lowest point in the sump and so wouldn't extract all the oil.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by 411514 »

I imagine the issue with the suction method is when it is rushed, as a garage might do, in which situation all the oil might not be removed. I tend to find that when draining the oil by removing the sump plug even with the oil warm mine needs ten minutes before the dripping near-stops. I imagine the suction method rushed is not much worse than a rushed drain job.

I do seem to recall however that Citroen issued a technical bulletin of some sort expressly warning against sucking the oil out of the 1.6 hdi. If it were mine I would always drain rather than suck.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by MikeT »

I've never known a sump to stop dripping after draining, even left for an hour drips tend to appear.
The only time I've never seen it drip is after I tried the suction-method and then removed the sump plug.
Perhaps I should try it in reverse next time; drain the sump and then see if suction removes any more old oil?
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Zelandeth »

Not a bad idea trying that.

I used to be skeptical that it would get everything out, but like you removed the sump plug after pulling the oil out by suction and have never found any appreciable amount left. Especially in the context of it being diluted down by 3+ litres of fresh oil. There's probably an order of magnitude more left in the various oil galleries in the block and head that will mix when the engine is first started.

I have to confess that I usually use the Pela suction extractor these days as it saves so much mess - especially from the Saab which has a massive drain plug and usually manages to overwhelm the catch tank and splashes everywhere all over the lockblock driveway.

...also we have many, many ants down here so anything which minimises the time I have to crawl around on the ground is a bonus.

So long as it's done properly I can't see any reason why the suction method can't be used to drain the 1.6HDi. At the end of the day, the sump is a metal bowl, whether it be in a Citroen, a Vauxhall or a 40 year old bus...so long as it all comes out, job's a good un.

I usually stick a quick splash of clean oil into the filler just as it starts to pull air through just to help clean anything sitting in the head out - usually comes out near the same colour it went in though.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by MikeT »

MikeT wrote: 21 Sep 2017, 16:51 Does anyone know why Citroen prohibit it?


I'm not sure but suspect this may be a copy of the bulletin wording?
http://bigjohnd.org.uk/CCC/OilChange-DV6.pdf

This appears to infer that draining via the sump plug will remove "all desposits of old oil" and using the suction method will not.
It also clearly states that using the suction-method will allow Citroen to void your new car warranty.
Hmmm.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by lexi »

I think it's simple really. If you are servicing cars for a living at dealers, with time constraints, and liability, it is prudent, sensible and idiot proof to pull the sump plug.
Otherwise you can be careful and suck the lot out with a pump taking a few minutes more.They have cars on ramps and we don't. Going to get that Pela thing for the cars here.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Bick »

Okay guys it seems the consensus is it can be done on the 1.6hdi - now the question what pump to buy? With value for money and usability in mind.

Whats the best guys?
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Paul-R »

Bick wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 10:54Okay guys it seems the consensus is it can be done on the 1.6hdi...
Umm, that's not the impression I get. But I suppose it's up to you in the end.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by MikeT »

Another bulletin I found from a turbo supplier (emphasis mine)
Tech Bulletins/Special Offers

PSA 1.6 Hdi Turbocharger Failure & Fitting Warning

ATTENTION: PLEASE READ THIS AND FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE FITTING THESE TURBOS TO YOUR CUSTOMERS VEHICLES
753420-ANY & 49173-07508 110 & 90/75 bhp
PSA 1.6HDi TURBOS, 2004- ONWARDS
The PSA 1.6HDi, DV6TED4 engine is a highly sophisticated low emission, high power diesel unit. It is used in many different applications Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Mini, Peugeot and Volvo.
Due to the engine being clean and powerful, it is designed to operate with high temperatures, which demands the very best lubricants. These lubricants must be maintained in peak condition and PSA have fitted an in-line oil filter to the turbo and an integral oil cooler/oil filter to this engine to ensure this. However there is a drawback to this, reports from in the field indicate that if the engine has been operated with the oil level below normal limits, this may potentially cause a high concentration of carbon in the oil. This may then lead to blockage of the in-line filter, oil cooler and main oil filter, which will eventually bring on premature turbo failure. The vacuum pump may also suffer from this same type of contamination. However, due to its high operating speeds (230,000 revs per minute) the turbo will usually be the first to show signs of damage. This can happen from 30,000 miles onwards if the oil level and correct oil change intervals/procedure have not been adhered to
And there's yet another Citroen Technical Bulletin released reminding us to be sure to drain the oil filter before refitting the sump plug.
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Bick »

Okay ill rephrase my question so as not to upset the click, (sorry those who disagree) - THOSE WHO HAVE CHANGED THE OIL IN A 1.6HDI VIA SUCTION METHOD, AND WERE HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS.

What type of kit are you using, what's it like, what's the best kit value for money?
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Re: 1.6hdi oil change - suction method?

Post by Paul-R »

You're not upsetting me; I was just concerned about your engine in case you were getting the wrong impression from the replies. I can now see that you actually want to use this method so, as I said, it's up to you.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
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