spheres: 55 or 70 bar gives a softer ride?

[ihatecars]

Sometimes it’s just one thing after another, oh well. I suspect my spheres are on the way out again, but this time I think I’ll swap them myself, I don’t really need another bill for £250, that’s more than the car is worth!

So usual questions, I have found the items on GSFcarpart website, my Xantia has 6 spheres, XU7JP 1.8i petrol engine and I want a soft ride. I understand the 6 are: 2 rear, 2 front, 1 rear anti-sink and 1 accumulator.

My puzzle is, for the front there are two pressures to choose from, 55 bar and 70 bar (part nos 453PC0210 and 453PC0220 respt.). I know the pressure is effectively the stiffness of the spring so to my mind the 70 bar should be a stiffer spring with a harder ride. But I read elsewhere the stiffer “spring” gives a softer ride!?

I’m interested in damping too, to my mind a high amount of damping gives a hard ride and too little damping causes the car to wallow about. As the roads by me are very rough I need a soft ride. I guess damping rate is fixed in these spheres, just being a little hole in a baffle plate so there is no choice in the matter.

Looking at the rear sphere, there seems to be only one option, 453PC0060 which is 40 bar. The spec says “for vehicles without ride height control” - I’m not quite sure what this means. I have that lever next to the handbrake that has 4 positions for ride height. But as the GSF list only has that one for rear, I assume that’s the one I need.

The ones currently on the front are N45332-SP857 which were put on my an independent garage in a 2009/10. My Citroen dealer kept putting on spheres that seemed very stiff giving a horrible ride.

This link might take you to the exact page I’m referring to: deleted; was wrong

So which sphere would give a softer ride? Are the two choices for estate or hatchback or some other reason than ride stiffness?

many thanks

[white exec]

Are you quite sure your Xantia has only the 6 spheres that you list? If so it's non-Hydractive.
If you can post the car's VIN number, this can be checked out.
Hydractive and non-Hydractive cars use different spheres, giving a quite different ride.
Best to be sure before you replace anything.

[xantia_v6]

The link you gave does not take us to the right page, it must rely on a cookie on your browser to remember details that you have previously entered.

The 70 bar sphere will be an accumulator sphere which has no damper elements and cannot be used as a corner sphere.

For corner spheres, a higher pressure gives a softer ride, but unless you know what you are doing, it is best to stick with spheres of the original specification.

Hydractive was never fitted with the 1.8 engine.

[ihatecars]

thanks, I wasn't sure about the GSF url, maybe use the GSF model spec "CITROEN XANTIA 1.8 i Petrol (03/93 - 01/98)" Yes the car has 6 spheres as mentioned the VIN is: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]**removed***

I've looked for the correct sphere spec but get confused as there seems to be so many variations, maybe the VIN will help. My concern is, when I bought the car from my Citroen main dealer, the ride was horrible, they did change the spheres but the ride was still horrible, it took me a lot of effort and money to find an independant garage who just fitted what they said was normal spheres and the ride was good.

I've found a doc, the car was registerd in the UK on 12th Dec 1994, so it must be the ->05/95 version. I understand from the IFHS website my car is the non-Hydractive version.

The front 70bar sphere does seem to have the damper mechanism installed, (looking at the photos on the GSF website) I can see from the photos as you say, the accumulator doesn't.

[CitroJim]

It might be a good idea to discuss this with Pleiades... They know a bit about comfort and may be able to supply you exactly what you need...

There is a good sticky on here with a guide to swapping spheres...

http://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewt ... 22&t=24595

Be very aware of the safety aspects... Hydraulic Citroens can kill!

[ihatecars]

Thanks Jim, I will need to print that out and read another 10 times, on first reading (yesterday) I missed the info regarding the rear sphere, engine running on full height, it already sounds risky!

[CitroJim]

I missed the info regarding the rear sphere, engine running on full height, it already sounds risky!

Not as risky as it sounds at all as long as you follow the safety advice to the letter...

The only remaining risk then is a douche vert - being sprayed by LHM

[white exec]

Using your VIN number, service.citroen states:
Xantia 5dr 1.8i 8v 103 RHD saloon RP6559 (mfd 12 Oct 1994)
Non-hydractive

Standard sphere line-up will be: (volume cc/pressure bar/damping orifice mm) (-- = no damping)
Accumulator 400/62/--
Front wheels 400/70/1.65
Rear wheels 400/40/1.1
Anti-sink 400/50/--

Spheres with 55bar pressure at the front are for heavier-engined diesels.
70 bar already offers more comfort.

I would stick with all these standard sphere specs if you are having spheres replaced.
Only then, if you find things not comfortable, should you cautiously explore more comfortable spheres.

First gentle step could be to fit 450cc spheres at the same pressures and damping. Larger volume = more comfort.
(Not sure whether there is room for these under Xantia bonnet - someone will know.)
70 bar is already a high sphere pressure, so probably not a good idea to go higher.
So-called "Comfort" spheres usually have larger damping apertures, so offer less movement damping, ie more bounce/wallow.

Also, very important to run on appropriate tyres. You won't go wrong with Michelin Energy/Energy Plus, which Citroen suspension was designed around. Also, do not over-inflate the tyres - even a couple of psi over-inflated can really make the ride hard and knobbly. Always check pressure with tyres cold.

There are good and bad spheres on the market. I always use genuine Citroen, but these are not the cheapest.
Others will advise on makes to avoid.

[ihatecars]

Thanks, that's a great help, everything now falls into place. The only unknown when buying is the damping hole, on the front we have 1.65 so I wonder how can I tell if GSF (Amtex) part 453PC0220 has that hole size? It's not mentioned in the spec. I've done a few web searches for Amtex but they seem to be hiding. Is the hole size stamped on the mounting face on the sphere?

I'm reading post on this site and find Amtex are GSF! but the link to their reference document seems to have vanished. sphere_ref.doc

[white exec]

If the seller cannot state exactly what the damping hole of the sphere is, don't buy it. This figure is vital to how the car handles.

On genuine Citroen spheres, the pressure is stamped on the sphere surface. The volume isn't, and neither is the damping orifice size. There is a small two-digit number engraved/machined either side of the small central damping orifice, but this can't be read as a damper size; it may just be a manufacturing code, and/or also refer to the other valve characteristics.

I am no longer up-to-date on good and poor quality spheres available in the UK. Get a genuine Citroen price, and compare. If the saving isn't great, then ponder. Some alternative brands are best avoided - I think Monroe and Lizarte have both had bad press.

You need some good advice here!

[ihatecars]

ok thanks for the advice. I've contacted GSF who did a look up and just point to the 70bar sphere (453PC0220) and have no info on the damping hole diameter. I feel comfortable now I have sufficient info to make a purchase, my only delay now is the MOT is due in 2 weeks, if the car passes then I'll do the sphere swap. Thanks again for the help.

[demag]

To be honest it is possible to mix and max. I had Bx comfort spheres on the front of my Xm. It was the only thing that would get it to move as the suspension was solid when I bought it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[chinkostu]

IFHS are good, ECP and AEP supply them and they are fitted to mine, and IFHS have a table on their site.

The only cars with the higher pressure spheres were the early 1.6 and 1.9D (non turbo) weren't they?