1997 1.9TD Estate - A Tyre-ing question about handling

[beko1987]

So I'm sat waiting for the aa...

my aux belt has been running off centre for a while, and I've been meaning to look at it...

driving to work today, all was completely fine until I felt a small shudder, then heard a loud whine, then the engine died... luckily I was able to turn into amys sisters country road (with no power steering, that was fun) and come to a halt in a massive gravel lay by and had a ponder. I can see bits of string around the cambelt and camshafts (as there is no top timing belt cover fitted), and deduce that the failing aux belt has caught the cambelt.

engine issues now are its difficult to start, and when it does fire the revs need holding at 1500 or higher or it dies, and white smoke plumes out of the exhaust. so I pull as much string as I can off, and make use of the boot full of tools I carry.

jacked up, wheel off, arch liner out and I remove the aux belt. it's shredded one side. the engine fires very nicely now and idles well. so I refit the aux belt, taking care to position it to the edges of the pulleys, and lob it all back together. To test, I drive down the road a bit, where after 200 yards at 20mph it suddenly runs like crap again, white smoke etc, so I coast to another stop, and call the aa.

whilst waiting, ive been googling, and reading lots of threads on here, the bits of aux belt have got caught in the cam belt and made it jump a tooth. I've had it running, but it surges alot on idle, and doesn't sound great with a bit of throttle. Is this in line with what I think has happened?

on the plus side it's a lovely day, and hopefully the aa can drag me home.

How tricky is it to take the cambelt off, clean it up and inspect it and refit it? it's only 20k into its current cambelt, tensioners and water pump, and for now I want to test the theory that I just need to re time the engine and fit a new aux belt. Or am I around the corner from a bigger issue?

it's a 1.9td wrapped up in a 1997 xantia!

thanks

[jgra1]

I did replace a snapped belt on a TD at roadside once, wasn't to big a deal you have most things out of way already.. to reset belt shouldn't be a pain

obvs lock flywheel as a must, first of all, then lock the inj sprocket (if you can) then undo crank pully and bottom cover..
check timing, undo tensioner, re timg belt.. reverse the steps where you can be bothered, and try and get home..

hardest bit could be getting the belt retensioned... its been ages since I did a TD so may be missing something

you may need to remove upper engine mount.. jack and wood under sump etc..
John

[beko1987]

ah im not touching it here at the side of the road, I haven't got anything to lock the sprockets, just my socket set and breaker bar!

I aim to do just that at the weekend though, will have to either borrow my girlfriends car or work from home tomorrow. I was just checking it was that simple.

why would the engine run like crap with the aux belt fitted, but ok without? is it the extra load?

what tools do I need to lock the sprockets? I have no timing tools or anything

[chinkostu]

if you're reusing the belt thats there (given theres no damage) theres no need to touch the engine mount, as you don't need to get a new belt in there!

if i remember right its an m8 bolt for the cam, crank is locked off at the flywheel (use a bit of welding rod bent at the end to get it in!) and the pump should be another bolt. timing holes should be easy to spot.

I'm still really confused as to it running ok with the belt off

[beko1987]

no the belts not coming off, as long as I can remove it from the cogs to check it and put it back that will do.

it idled fine with the aux belt removed, but with it put back it went off again. although the aux belt is running off centre on lots of pulleys as its now missing one side, so I presume not being held in place by both sides. granted I only idled it with no aux belt, but it started up alot easier than it currently does.

the aa van came about an hour ago, and quickly agreed with me and caller a recovery truck. eta I have no idea, so eating my lunch.

I haven't got any welding rod, or m8 bolts (any bolts really). I have drill bits and Allen keys though...

[chinkostu]

everywhere i've looked i've noticed they lock the flywheel off behind the starter, I somehow managed to do mine with the splashguard taken off the bellhousing and slid in that way. must have been lucky!

the proper tool looks like this (the black rod at the top)



if you haven't got bolts then anything that'll go snugly through the timing holes and into the casing will do. I think I used a drillbit and a random bolt!

[beko1987]

lovely, I'll try everything until it fits then!

[chinkostu]

lovely, I'll try everything until it fits then!

Not with the ladies I hope

[jgra1]

hehe

I think I used to nick one or two injection pump. bolts.. to then lock then injection pump !

[beko1987]

Handy tip, thanks!

I got bought home at about 3pm, this weekends job now is:

Euro car parts to play the age old roulette game, have a cambelt and aux belt reserved for £25. Wether they will be for my car is anyones guess...
Remove old aux belt
remove cambelt
check and clean up everything
re-time
fit new belt (not touching the waterpump or tensioners, can't afford to and they were changed a year or so ago)
fit new aux belt
hope!

[beko1987]

Right, let me show you what I've been doing today! First, I jumped in my girlfriends Meriva and popped into town to get some bits



Aux belt, cam belt, can of brake cleaner, m8 rod, cut up to make locking pins and the french car forum cambelt change wiki guide!

I started stripping it down, and quickly got to the crank pulley bolt. The gearbox was in 5th, handbrake hard on but it kept rotating. Took me a few minutes to work out that my front discs are missing the retaining bolt, so the driveshaft and hub were rotating behind the disc. Soon sorted that



and off it cracked, quite easily, but this is the third belt change this has had. Immediatly issues become apparent



Moving on, I failed to get both intercooler pipes off, but luckily* the top cambelt cover is missing, and the main cover is broken, so with the pipes half off the cover was withdrawn (I re-read the how to and did find the mounting bolts to the intercooler pipe that isnt held in with a jubilee clip, so might remove it to refit). I then alarmingly saw a bit of plastic wedged under the cam crank



Some more bits were undone, then it came to the engien mount, and I haven't got a big enough spanner, adjustable or socker (32mm is my biggest), but luckily my oil filter wrench came to the rescue and cracked it off!





Next, I rotated the engine and locked the fuel pump crank. But then the cam crank wouldnt line up.... So, I took the starter motor off because I couldnt find the locking hole, and locked the flywheel and cam. Then, off came the belt, and I rotated the fuel pump and locked that (the fuel pump rotation was sprung, is this right?)



Used a 6mm drill bit to lock the flywheel, my m8 rod was too thick



Amazingly, with everything locked up the bottom cog was at TDC, so I think the fuel pump was thrown out of time, causing the poor running and excessive white smoke

I pulled the cog off the bottom bit and fished bits of melted aux belt out from behind it



The full extent of how lucky I hope I;ve been is here...



Naughty words were said.

Fighting with the tensioner, I eventually got the cambelt on, and the tensioner done up. And that brings us to now. The locking pins are being pushed against now, so aren't un-doing easily, now everything is under tension. My initial thought is to slacken the tensioner off again, remove the pins and re-tension. Or just find something bigger to grip the pins with to remove them. Everything then needs a good few rotations to seat the cambelt properly, as it's not sitting right on a few teeth on the bottom cog.

Then (and this is mainly so I don't forget!), I need to:

cambelt cover on
intercooler pipes on
crank pulley on with locktite
aux belt pulleys cleaned off (veg oil and diesel got on them due to a leak off pipe split, I think this is what started all this off a few weeks ago)
fit new aux belt (and hope euro car parts sold me the right one, it's ever so slightly smaller, I'm hoping because the old one is streched)
refit starter motor
re-run the lhm pipes and cables
refit ait box and battery tray
refit battery tray
pucker up and turn the key...
arch liner
sort out a weeping screenwash tube join
wheel on
go for a scary first drive!

Will update tomorrow!

[Gibbo2286]

Right at the start of that I thought 'M8' that's a mistake, should be M6

[CitroJim]

Sam, that's some excellent work you've done there... Well done...

I'll soon be doing the same jobs on my newly acquired 1.9TD Xantia...

You were lucky the crank bolt cracked off so easily Sometimes they can be real &*%&*%s to do...

[beko1987]

Right at the start of that I thought 'M8' that's a mistake, should be M6

Hehe, it feels odd writing it so much!

Wish I'd used bolts now though, could just spanner them out. Got to crack out the mole grips tomorrow to get them out now!

[beko1987]

Right at the start of that I thought 'M8' that's a mistake, should be M6

The guide says m8 https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/wiki/1.9_TD

and they do turn in nicely. Their under pressure now though, will take some gripping to get out tomorrow!